Okay, so people in vegetative states aren't humans then. I see. If we can establish the fetuses are people then we have a duty to protect them. The mother is no longer relevant in the discussion at that point.
Humans just happen to be the only people around. Intelligent aliens would also likely qualify. EDIT: It's like how all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. All humans are people, but not all people are necessarily humans.
A vegetative state isn't characterized by the lack of consciousness, it's a disorder of consciousness. Two entirely different things. Brain death is the only complete and utter end to consciousness and brain activity, aside from standard death. Also, it's impossible to establish a fetus as a person. Simple as that. The act of debating it is obnoxious seeing how there is no possibility of proving they are humans, barring some scientific miracle, completely rewriting the book on how we work.
That's all well and good, but you said that it doesn't matter if they're human. It matters quite a lot.
It isn't impossible to know. We do know that a fetus isn't a conscious human being. Simple as that. Therefore, due to a lack of consciousness, or any perception of thought or reality, a fetuses termination is acceptable. Technically, nothing is scientifically impossible, because there is infinite amounts of possible discoveries that could totally change our concept of reality. However, if we wish to stay grounded in that reality, we can safely state that a fetus is not a human.
It seems irrational to kill humans on the grounds that they are not human without proof that they are not humans.
All humans/people are capable of conscious thought. Even if it was classified as part of the human species, it would not gain those traits, so, at best, it would be sub-human. Sounds awful, but that's the best way to put it. Therefore, it seems like species itself should be irrelevant, if we are judging things strictly upon the capacity of their minds. That didn't even make sense, but we do have proof that they aren't human, and certainly not conscious.
For the sake of argument, I'll just accept this as truth. If it's taken to be true then your earlier comments are invalid, because you said that even if fetuses were human that they had no rights. You are now trying to classify them as sub-human, which is fine, but completely contradicts your earlier statements. My point here is that if we establish fetuses as humans/people, then they do indeed have a right to life. Your initial post said that it didn't matter at all, but it matters very much.
I actually now just went back in read that, and I certainly botched the phrasing. I see what your getting at.
If someone is knocked unconcious, it does not make them unhuman. Even more so if left to their own devices they would naturally become concious. And no, you can't prove they aren't human.
That's a completely different kind of consciousness. When your knocked out, your mind is still working and processing information. Do you even understand the concepts I'm talking about? They aren't particularly complex, and the consciousness I'm discussing is defined by brain function.
Not really. You confused mental consciousness with physical consciousness. It isn't hard to understand. It's more of you not understanding, or knowing.
