New colonies and a war on drugs

So kill that kid or send him off to be a slave. That will save him.

^^
This.


Just wondering....are you american?
EDIT: Just saw your location.



EDIT 2: Being in favor of legalizing marijuana i have to ask, what business is it of yours concerning marijuana anyway? Its healthier than both cigs and alcohola (as stated above) and even has medical purposes. And it is only a 'gateway drug' because it IS illegal and taboo. If you legalize it it would take all the..."ghetto" out of it. Instead of buying it from a dealer who has other drugs available and will pressure you into them you'd buy it from a gas station, where the most despicable thing there is the high prices and highly fattened food. And seeing that is no excuse. Marijuana is bought and sold at my school frequently and i see it, nor does it bother me. Not my life. Not my problem. And even for those addicted to more harmful drugs such as meth or crack or whatever they should not have their freedoms taken away permanently, by death or concentration camp, and should ONLY be rehabilitated. Do you realize how many friends and family of yours would be killed or enslaved if your sick idea were to be put in place? I'd be at least half. You would kill more people doing this than drugs ever could. And don't give me any "my family and friends would not do anything like that" sorta thing, because i can almost guaruntee you, SOMEONE has. What you are arguing for, sir, is a almost complete throw away of human rights for very little, or NO gain.

He gets two chances at rehab first. Three years of rehab paid for by the state healthcare system. If that isn't a fair chance what is?

First of all weed is absolutely harmless, cigs and alcohol kill and harm far, far, far more people. The only way pure weed could kill you is if you were somehow under the influence and got in a crash, alcohol is policed to prevent you from drinking and driving, why not weed?

So you don't care that they are killed because they are repeat criminals, not locked up, killed and you don't care. For the record I have changed in my views on the death penalty and I do not think this is right at all. It is disgusting in my eyes to view these people as disposable.

No, weed is harmless. Weed isnt what hurts you. Its the method of transmission. You smoke weed. Smoking is extremely unhealthy as I'm sure you know. If someone can't get over drugs after 3 years of rehab, there is a problem here.

What is your position on the very legal tobacco industry? The main reason smoking is bad is because of all of the chemicals they put in the products. Besides, you intend to kill people anyways with this, talking about it's because they were doing unhealthy things is kind of silly. Death is the most unhealthy thing of all.

No, no it's not. A better chance would be not saying at the end of that, okay enough is enough, slave time for you. Provide the option of free rehab, nothing more. For those dealing, prison is sufficient.

Yes, the person who doesn't realize that different people cope with different things differently and thinks that if they don't meet the deadline they should be killed instead of further helped, is what the problem is.

And by that logic cigarettes should be illegal... bonfires should be illegal.... candles should be illegal.... Not to mention that there obviously ARE different ways of consuming weed.

While it is definitely an option, I cannot honestly say that I believe it would work. In certain areas force may be necessary to stabilize a region, yes, but full colonization would not go over well with most.

Chelsea and Clayman, perhaps you don't understand because (I assume) your older than me. I grow up in a neighborhood where its considered a "good time" for 14 year olds to go get high off some weed, drive around the neighborhood (when they are below the driving age of course) and then get in collisions and accidents. A kid from a school near ours recently died when a fence rail took off his head. That fence rail was flying because a drunk 16 year old was speeding down a small road. What are you supposed to think when the middle schoolers are more focused on sex and drugs than anything else? Not to mention, if you start weed at like 13, where are you gonna be at 18? Either dead from an overdose or shooting heroin. When there is a lucrative profit to be made from selling feshman ecstasy, what am I supposed to think? I have a theory that you two and most of the people on these forums have no fucking idea whats going on with America's teens today.

It is considered in my book a drug just as bad as weed. Believe me, my proposal extends to smokers.

Why? People don't spend time sticking candles in there mouths and smoking them. Bonfires are ok. As long as your not standing over it and breathing in the smoke nonstop...

Yes, I know. That should be illegal too. Except in the rare cases where the us of medical marijuana can help save somebody.

Well, I wasn't quite sure about the exact details of what I said, however, I can assure you i don't mean FULL SCALE colonization. It is not absolute rule. It is more like establishing a puppet government and taking a lot of control in their politics. And slowly giving them more freedom as they progress and can handle it. The system of establishing a democratic government then pulling out without even staying for the elections surely didn't work =P

First if we legalized the non harmful drugs, they would stop making money illegally, stop being sold illegally and the conditions would be much safer for them. Second drunk driving is very much illegal already so that servers little point, what he did was wrong and should have been charged as manslaughter as well which carries a good prison time. Third driving under the influence of any drug should be illegal, I certainly support that. Prison time can deal with such crimes. However you want tomorrow's troubled youth to either be slaves or be killed which is far worse. You certainly aren't supposed to think about enslaving them because they do drugs, you should offer them rehabilitation, offer them free and plenty of education and sources of knowledge on the dangers of such things and last but not least limit the illegal drug industry that they would be getting it from. Your plan will not eliminate drugs, you can't. They will always find a way, unless you make certain harmless drugs available but not without restrictions. You are just making sure that you ruin lives further instead of helping this situation with teens today.

EDIT: Also I call major bullshit on the if you smoke weed by 13 you will be dead by overdose or doing heroin by 18, that is just false for a lot of cases. You can't overdose on weed and if weed was more available and not sold by back street dealers, perhaps people wouldn't be tempted into illegal drugs as much. Also do I need to mention how much of a slippery slope this whole idea is?

I simply deteste your views on imperialism.
And so does everyone else here, evidently.
The accusation of a country being neo-imperialist is one of the biggest insults that you can give on the international stage these days and for good reason.
Your idea is neither practical nor morally correct.
Imperialism brought about the condition that Africa is in right now. More imperialism doesn't sound like the right answer.
Practically, you are talking about a massive initial investment that will take decades to bounce back. AND:
1) "I beg you to accept that there are no peoples in the world that would not prefer their own bad government over the good government of an alien power." - Ghandi
2) Democracy has rarely ever been successfully implemented anywhere and has never worked anywhere that it was forced. Not as those who forced it intended, in any case.
3) Destroy the cultural and social differences?! So the latter is calling for Communism, amoung other things, and the former is calling for the complete annialiation of the people, as they will, having not given up their civil wars for millenia, never give it up. Every drop of blood spilt in their civil wars lead to more.
4) The DRC. The Republic of Congo. Rowanda. Somalia.
5) Education for them?! What about spending A LITTLE on the children of the US?!

None of these things have not been tried and none of them have not failed.
China's economic investment in Zibabwe, as selfish as it is, has mutually benefited the country and its populous without going to the extreme method that you are asking for. Education, roads, infrastructure in general. Democratic government? No, but they are too busy reaping the rewards of Chinese investment to really oppress people. If the theory of the West holds, the people will demand Democracy later on.
The people are prospering less than the government, but they are gaining an infrastructure in years that would take decades under your ridiculous proposal.
And the people are not in the streets shooting at the Chinese, are they? Consider what would happen if you invaded their homes. Somalia would happen. The Congo would happen. Rowanda would happen.

In the long run, the people would want to take revenge.

Basically, you are advocating for something that is both radical and unncessary. The Chinese are already creating 4/5 of the positive affects that you want without resorting to such measures. Your proposal would take decades just to start and likely centuries to complete with more resources and lives wasted than is necessary.



As for your drug ideas...
Maybe in China, but the West would probably never do it.
I understand where you are coming from, having studied how China handles these things, but I don't hold out any belief that the West will ever do the same. They simply value human life too much to do it.
I understand both sides of the argument, but I doubt that it will get anywhere.

I think you are overestimating people. If you know your gonna have some very major and I admit absolutely barbaric punishments if your caught, then you won't do it. Its not worth the risk. Forced labor isn't enslavement. I'm not talking about Holocaust style camps, which is unfortunately the picture people get when I say forced labor. These people will be well fed, clothed, and sheltered. It will be a correctional facility. A place where the criminals can do some work and give back to society while they think about what they did wrong.

Maybe you should know that I have a couple of friends (girls) that were smoking in 8th grade (just cigs). Over the summer, they both started smoking weed. From that in the space of a couple months they are trying ecstasy. One of them is thinking about Heroin. Its been a year and a half since she started smoking cigs. Now shes about to get into Heroin. So, yes, in 5 years they will get into much worse drugs. Please remember these aren't careful adults we are talking about. Its kids that will do anything to make their next high better. Even worse, the teachers have stopped discouraging drug use and in some classes kids will openly talk about their use of drugs with teachers and not get reported. There was a 15 year old sophomore in my World History class. One day he stopped showing up. I asked my friend what had happened. Turned out he was busted for trying to sell a freshman crack.

BTW slydessertfox the girls i mentioned you do not know. (Its not erin kappy or kara =P)

EDIT: Two things, Imperial PM me cause I'm not gonna have two massive arguments at once. I would like to explain my posistion in more detail to you. Second, maybe this will help explain things to Chelsea. I have no value for human life. If someone is executed for being stupid, so be it. We have many humans on Earth already. We can't sustain what we have. We must cull the drain on society that is drug users.

Well I'm glad I'm not doing drugs.

Ignoring the fact that we disagree on whether forced labor is slavery or not and the fact that I don't think we should be deporting people and saying, here you deal with these guys. Did you ever stop to think that these girls who are getting their drugs illegally might not have the same temptation or influence if they weren't dealing with these shady people? I don't think young people should be allowed access to drugs regardless but having safe government run dispensaries that sold government grown and inspected weed would help a lot. Your teachers are clearly a problem here and they should be replaced, a much easier solution. Finally, blame the parents too, it's not the governments job to raise their kids right, it's their job.


EDIT:

Wow, I have just lost ALL respect for you and any like for you that I had.

lol a girl named kara at our school =P

How would that help? I fail to see. We live in an age and country where we are taught the only way to succeed is to make a profit, regardless on the toll on human life. There will always be extortionists, opportunists, and corruption. These "government run dispensaries" sound all well and good on paper, but in real life? No. There will be corruption. Crime. And not much the government runs ever goes right does it?

I'm a communist, that should explain my views on the only way to succeed is to make a profit regardless of the toll on human life. If you really do not value human life at all, why the fuck do you care if people do drugs or not?! I call bullshit since you talked about that kid being killed. Also you're one to talk about corruption and things sounding better on paper than in reality, your whole system will get fucked by that.

EDIT: Btw, how is America's current war on drugs going? I seem to remember that due to the illegal drug industry criminal organizations are gaining a lot of power, Mexico for example. But we're only fueling that by making pot illegal, people like that can profit from it. The war on harmful and non harmful drugs combined still seems to be allowing these teens to get drugs. Why? Because you can't stop people from getting things from illegal means, you can make the penalties harsher and harsher but people will still find a way. The best way is to limit the profit of these criminal organizations by taking away their product entirely and ensuring that people get the safe stuff from safe places.

PM you? PM me.

Why did you post two controversial positions in one thread if you were not prepared to handle them both at the same time?

Have a mod split the tread if you can't handle them in the same thread, but don't expect me to not condemn you in this one.
I will gladly discuss the subject with you in either this or another thread.

How about "think global, act local" as a motto.
Here's a start, get some friends together and make coffins in shop class for every person who goes to the school who dies. That should turn some heads.

I truly believe that making non harmful drugs legal would solve a lot of the harmful drug problems. If marijuana was legal, the person wanting to get high has to ask his or herself this question; Use marijuana to get high or risk going to prison for hard drugs? Not a hard choice. But if there is no choice, it's all the same, you risk going to jail either way. So what is stopping you from trying the next drug and then the next? Nothing because you're doing it on the illegal market. If you could go down the street to a government run dispensary get your pot and go home and never have to worry would you not choose that over going to some shady man for hard drugs that can land you in prison or a grave? Finally for you capitalists, legalizing marijuana would bring in a lot of money. Putting all of that money that goes into criminal pockets into legal hands. I mean look at how profitable the tobacco industry is.

I'm just going to leave this here.