Continuation of The Ler Argument

Discussion in 'Archive' started by slydessertfox, Mar 13, 2012.

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  1. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    I've been sober from sunday until earlier today, actually. Unless you count the Adderall I snorted(160mg in two days, the first time ever doing it mind you), which I am feeling the negative affects of today. Today I got high for the first time this week, unfortunately I smoked a legal incense, which I smoked too much of and had the worst trip of my life, and threw up yellow and green.
    Never touch the shit. It's litterally evil.
  2. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    I did exactly this four days ago, ended up eating a hotdog and taking a nap right after throwing up. Wouldn't advise this to anyone.
  3. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    Now imagine doing it in the woods next to the school right after classes and not having any water or a place to rest, and a friend who is telling you he thinks you're going to die. I would have knocked him out had I been able to figure out how to control more than one body part at once.
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  4. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    And that, kids, is why you should only do illegal drugs.
  5. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Well I have asthma, so if I ever try smoking I will legitimately probably have an asthma attack and die. (Its pretty serious asthma, I've been hospitalized several times for it)
  6. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    Err... And that, athmetics, is why you should never do illegal drugs.
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  7. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Or legal ones, I can't smoke cigs either. It would be safer for me to inject heroin then smoke marijuana :p
  8. Unillogical Ex-Admin

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    Explains the gas mask. I never knew that was a photo!
  9. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Well, now you know! :p
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  10. Chives Newest Member

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    Since this thread has apparently nothing to do with anything, can I recommend it be moved to Off Topic?
  11. PopePnwer Well-Known Member

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    It was dead why should it be moved anywhere?
  12. Chives Newest Member

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    One, I didn't realize how old it was
    Two, The People's Assembly looks nicer without pointless threads mucking it up.
  13. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    Sure, I'll move it.
  14. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    @Unillogical
    It's not about martyring myself, it's about making the forums somewhere that I would actually want to post in. I left because I detested the status quo and the way things are going, primarily because of Ler and his influence on the site. By leaving at least one of those things was bound to change, and, if Stalin had kept his word, both.

    You'd have to be purposefully dense not to understand that the two factions on the site were defined by Ler and myself.

    Of course. Of course it would. Half of the reason that people bothered to support Ler in the first place was because they disliked me or what I've said. People come to think that he's not so bad, or 'just misunderstood' when they see what I've said. You yourself fall into that category. As a rational person, you couldn't possibly support or even tolerate the idea of letting someone with Ler's character, ambition, and track record become tribune again. And yet, because you have such a strong distaste for what I've said, you feel the need to inject yourself into arguments that have nothing to do with you, just to oppose me. And, on a number of occasions, that puts you squarely in the category of people who defend Ler without rational basis.

    Of course, because you posted this, Stalin never responded. Because you decided to force your way into the discussion, just to take shots at me, I will never receive a real response from the intended target. Cause and effect is not strictly linear, and I refuse to believe you can't understand that.

    I don't even know what you're responding to here, and for the rest of this either, really, but this is just ad hominem for ad hominem's sake. I get that you don't like how I say things. You've made that expressly clear on a number of occasions. However, you aren't actually stupid enough to think that I'm wrong in what I say. I give you more credit than that.

    Again, you express your discontent with the manner in which I deliver my message, but don't even acknowledge the content. I'll admit that I use sensationalist rhetoric. But the main reason I do that is because it gets people to actually pay attention. Go and look at the rules proposal section and see how many times in a row transparency was rejected. Then look at the most recent topic.

    Sensationalism may not be pretty, but it gets things done. Additionally, it's very much in my nature to express things bluntly and not hide behind niceties. People get offended by that, which is fine. They have every right to be offended. What I detest is the prevailing attitude among the mods and a large portion of the userbase that offensiveness is grounds for punishment. That argument is one we've had before many times, but you can never seem to let it go, ever. Look at this situation on its material circumstances and you will come to the same conclusion that every other rational person on the forums has already come to. I think you already have reached that conclusion, and you alluded to as much in a later post in another thread, but you refuse to acknowledge it or make it public, probably because it would mean you agree with me. And that right there is why my leaving actually does mean something.

    All counts but one of his numerous instances of hate speech and personal insults were dismissed. He would have been banned if Chelsea were not looking out for him.

    This excerpt is yet another instance of people refusing to acknowledge that they fundamentally agree with me, simply because they don't like me, what I say, or the manner in which it is said.

    Since you didn't quote me, it's damned hard to tell.

    This was something addressed specifically towards Stalin regarding the way in which he personally handled Ler. He treated what Ler said as if it were equally valid, or carried as much weight, as what I said. Now, at the time I was referencing, Ler was a standard member and I was a forum moderator. Stalin's personal relationship with Ler compromised his judgment and prevented him for evaluating the situation rationally.

    As I stated, this has nothing to do with the Coffeehouse or political ideology. It's about a situation specific to myself, Stalin, and Ler. This is why you shouldn't get involved in something that has nothing to do with you.

    Stalin made a public thread to call Matt out about his personal life. That was the stated intent of the thread.

    I pointed out why that's a bogus argument. Matt was considered by the community to be an above-average moderator (at the least), and his involvement in the community probably goes without comparison. His identity and personal life, even if they were fictitious, clearly had no bearing on either his role as a moderator or his activity in the community. Additionally, Stalin never before questioned other moderators about details of their personal lives, or even made it clear that we had to divulge that information to him in the first place. Now I understand you want to defend Stalin because he's your friend and your superior, but I seriously doubt that you think he was in the right here at all, and you have no reason to stand up for him.

    Ler and Stalin routinely discussed the issue of Matt's identity. Ler admitted as much himself. To think that Ler, who repeatedly voiced doubts about Matt's identity and maintained discussions with Stalin on the subject isn't responsible (or, as I said more accurately, that his relationship with Stalin) for this witch-hunt is just willful ignorance.

    I honestly can't tell what you're responding to here. If the 7th paragraph is the first one about Matt, then the 10th one is the one that starts with "But, even if that were the case...", which would mean that you're responding to it here. However, barring maybe the first sentence, none of it actually seems to relate to anything in that paragraph. You really should use quotes instead.

    They may not revolve around these things, but they certainly are impacted by them. Even if Ler cannot control your opinion, he more than has the power to set the agenda, and even more so as Tribune. Insults and hate speech weren't issues until Ler made them issues by constantly reporting everything everyone said. My opposition to the hate speech and insults rules came about not because of simple ideology, as I was more than content to approve them when they were proposed; but because of the way in which they were being abused and the very real possibility that they would be expanded (and have, since my departure): all of that is due entirely to Ler.

    Ler's influence on the site and staff is undeniable, and it's not paranoid at all to realize that his personal relationship with people like Stalin and Chelsea has impacted their decisions. Chelsea readily admits as much, and especially from the issue with Matt, it's obvious with Stalin as well.

    You are letting your personal antipathy, either towards me or the manner in which I argue, entirely cloud your judgement. I don't think you even disagree with me, except about free speech (which isn't central to my point). You haven't been in the loop, specifically as in not involved in certain Skype conversations, regarding Ler and Stalin, so I understand why you may not buy that he's an actual influence in the Matt situation. But at the end of the day I don't think you'd dispute that Ler is unfit to be Tribune, considering all that he's done and the type of person he is.

    I'm not your opponent. I'm not even legitimately involved in all of this nonsense anymore. As far as changing the forums go, I'm the last on a list of people who have the capacity to make change happen. I gave all that up when I realized how much BS it was. Ler, however, has not. My last safeguard to prevent him, the antithesis of everything I stand for, from taking power has fallen through.

    However, reasonable people do actually exist on the forums. I've seen them peeking in at these threads every now and then. I think that you're one of them. And you're in a position of authority and influence. You have the capacity to make change happen. But don't let the site's URL trick you as it did me: reasonable people will not come out and make themselves be heard, will not come out and oppose the torrent of emotions and rivalries, not on their own.
  15. Chelsea366 Retired Moderator

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    This is untrue about me being the only reason he isn't banned. I'm pretty sure Pedro and Uni will back me up on this one. I wasn't even online for some of it while you were trying to get him banned.

    I have always supported being harsher on insults and hate speech and guess what? We banned Che for hate speech before you started getting reported by Ler.
  16. Unillogical Ex-Admin

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    I shall respond when I am done with this film.
  17. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    For the record it was me who pushed for that.....
  18. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    With the argument that because Che was so prolific in his hate speech violations that we now must clump any violations within X time period together into one offense.
  19. Vulcan200x Well-Known Member

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    Can we just stop the fighting?
  20. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    More citing the principle that in the past we've lumped such things, insults included, together into one infraction. I only bring it up because it wasn't any sort of bias on Chelsea's part that resulted in the lower infraction.
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