Josef Stalin Declassified

They were also losing millions of men in wars that should have been cakewalks. i.e. Japan.

Both awful people, but I think I'd have to go with Stalin, since he killed way more people.

Churchill could be just as ruthless. E.g. the bombing of Dresden.
Although that's, admittely, a slightly overdramatized event, he was willing to do it just to equalize Germany post-war with the British Empire.

And while I do agree Stalin and the USSR wasn't exactly 'good', I don't think he so much as 'engineered' it as it is a 'natural occurence' with a bith of bad luck and a lot of bad intend on both sides.
Countries which started to industriliaze later on the timeline (e.g. 1900's vs 1700's) always do it in a much faster but also a more brutal way, simply because they feel like there is no other way to do it.
Usually these countries are not exactly having fun times when they happen and the need to grow stronger and have a more competitive stance is greater then the need to go slow and steady.

That said Stalin is still a mass murderer because of what he did to both the Kozzaks and other 'enemies of the state'.
And Winston Churchill is still f*cking bad*ss, woooo!!

That's all he needs to say, you dirty pekka.

I was responding to what Sly asked, who was worse, Stalin or Hitler. I said Stalin.

I think he meant why do you think Stalin is worse than Hitler.

Ah, I see. Let me explain myself then: Stalin was responsible for the deaths of over 23 million people. Hitler was responsible for 12 million. This is in the Holocaust and Gulags, not including those killed during World War II.
Edit: Also those killed in the Ukraine Famine.

This is my source: http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

Well, If you go just by battle deaths, than he's not that far off. Most in the Civil War Died of disease. And, as I already said, This was the Holocaust I was talking about, not World War II. So, He's already right in both of what he talked about. Yeah, thanks, he is a pretty good historian.

Yep. Here's another source, by the way, on the 20,000,000 million+ deaths part: http://www.distributedrepublic.net/archives/2006/05/01/how-many-did-stalin-really-murder/
Let me rephrase what I was saying: These only include those killed in Hitler's and Stalin's Domestic Policies, not World War II.
Edit: Also, My numbers mean what he was responsible for, not what were directly ordered.

Yeah, they were estimates. Lower Estimates. So, what he was saying it was probably more then 20,000,000.
And, I'm curious as to what your source is. And, I said Stalin, did I not? Here is what I said in reply to his question:
Both awful people, but I think I'd have to go with Stalin, since he killed more people.

Stalin is so bad. What kind of asshole doesn't bend the weather to his will when there's a famine? Douche.

And you guys are really just counting deaths to find out who was worse? Think of it this way, Hitler wanted to murder basically everyone, and did murder anyone he could get his hands on. For Stalin, it was like, throw away a few guys and then we're ok. It's just everyone Stalin sent to round up the trouble makers decided a few guys meant a million guys and Stalin wasn't about to stick himself in harms way to save some dissenting peasants.

I was just anwering a question....