Religion in American society

- Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying, and eventually they will believe it - Brodolf Shitler - American politics in a nut shell.

People get run over because drivers are using their phones while they drive. Perhaps we should just take everyone's phones away? And what of people doing make up? Make up must go as well. Come on, is the right to make up really worth human lives?

There is only one solution. Criminalize all the things!

I do agree that american politics are influenced from religion to much...

@ Coexistance
Almost 80% of Germans are members of some kind of religion, almost 50% say that they are believers. You dont hear politicians say "I was choosen by god to run for president" here. It has nothing to do with the religiosity of the people that politicians say shit like that. It' a) your politicians are mostly a crazy bunch of nutjobs and b) you americans are the only civilized western country who gives a shit about religion in day-to-day life.

For example: There was a poll a few weeks ago that asked the american public: "Would you vote for a non-religious person fpor president?" Not one single human beeing in Europe would actually ask that kind of stupid question. I could care less what religion the candidates follow, if any. Not a single fuck is given here....

It has to do with the fact that Americans value religion more than most "western" nations. I mean, we were the first to actually guarantee freedom of religion. Of course we are going to put more value in it in politics than most European countries. Its just the way we are.

Funny.... because freedom of religion is equal to freedom from religion. One of many freedoms your country does not grant those who seek it in theire daily lives and in theire politics.

The first? Depends on the interpretation of it, I suppose...

There are social consequences to it, sure, and people should be aware of that. But atheists are not denied any opportunities that religious people are, and it's just factually incorrect to claim that the government does not protect their right to express a lack of religious belief. It's not the fault of our government or Constitution that atheistic candidates are almost unelectable, it's just the way that our society is.

The question is, are atheist candidates unelectable because they are atheists, or because they have other "flaws"?
I think we both know the answer to that question, which brings us to the point where we have to talk about what the hell is wrong with your society, that values believing in something that can't be proven but only imagined through doctrination above anything else.

Also, every year around Saturnalia, I hear messages about displays in court house squares (or something of that sort) of the birth of "christ". While displays of Atheist groups are often considered offensive and/or not allowed. If you say, that this is freedom of religion, you don't have a clue what freedom is.

EDIT: And! I truly believe, you elected a president in 2008 who is at least agnostic.

People consider religion to be quite important here. It's seen, especially in the context of politics, as a moral guideline. I resent your claim that something is wrong with our society because it values religion, and I find your anti-theistic attitude to be just as bad as that of the theocrats.

Do you mean Christmas? It's really stupid to try and politicize a popular Christian (and for that matter, secular) holiday like that. It's just vindictive and juvenile.

I don't know what a group of atheists would put together as a holiday display, but the only things that come to mind are offensive.

I don't think I said anything like that. Atheists have the same rights and freedoms as theists do.

You gotta be on something to think Obama is agnostic.

If a religion that supports slavery, human sacrifice, mass murder and genocide is seen as a morale guideline for politics, than yes, I call your society not only wrong.
Also, politicians who think that they are choosen by god and/or do things because god wants them to are not only stupid, but a danger to the world.

EDIT: And before you argue about Old Testament and stuff, this is what jesus said: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

or "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

No, I mean Saturnalia. You know, the holiday(s) christians hijacked for them selves because they couldn't stand thos damn heathens celebrating it every year....

So religious freedom, and thats exactly what they try to invoke, the right to make a display when other groups are allowed to, ends when you feel offended? You are such a hipocrite... But hey, you are kali right? You always were....

Yeah, thought as much.

I wouldn't categorically dismiss their right to petition for a display in a public space, but since the people doing it are most likely similar to you, I doubt that their display wouldn't be offensive. And despite my views on how much being offended counts for, it's not like it's better anywhere else in the world.

There is no point argueing with you, if you denie the textual heritage that is given to you by YOUR god. It is your god who "inspired" those guys to write it. It's not my religion I am quoting while you have nothing to say but the bitter words of a guy who cant refute my point

Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech! READ ABOUT IT! No fuck is given if you are offende, it is theire RIGHT to do it!
And please visit Europe, you will see that, while not perfect, it is much better here. If you can, seeing that you propably think its a socialistic hellhole where Anarchy has taken over and we all listen to Black Metal while sacrificing a virgin (and they are very hard to find in these lands, we all fuck around in our teens you know) to Baal or Satan.

I like how you just assume that I'm a Christian. Typical anti-theist.

Well it comes down to it being on public property, and at the local level, being subject to community standards. I seriously doubt that a group of atheists, or rather, atheist organizations, have anything to say about Christmas that won't offend people. I agree that offensiveness is never grounds to silence speech, but the US is probably the freest country on the planet in that regard, and even we have restrictions on time, place, and manner.

Nope, I'm more than familiar with the European concept of "free speech". It's worse than Canada over there.

Tell me If you are not, I can quote a lot of text from many different religions that have one thing in common: They are crazy!

So, christians are allowed even if it offends atheists or other lets say Muslims, but atheists aren't allowed because christians might be offended. Hipocrite....
Also, the US is not the freest country in that regard. Dont trust my word. Look it up, maybe here...

... Speaking out of your ass. Both Canada and Germany rank above the US in my link. With some other 45 freaking countries.
You sir, have no idea whats going on in the world. You live in a bubble.

I suppose you could go down the middle road and be monotheistic. No organized religion but believing in a higher being.

Why should I do that? Is there any evidence or any hint that there is such a beeing? I never heard anything that would indicate it....

I truly detest anti-theists. Possibly more than any other people on the planet. You are not special for lacking a belief in something. You are not smarter or more rational. Anti-theists are actually just as irrational as theists. But one omnipresent trait among anti-theists is that they're all dicks. Every last one, no exceptions.

I didn't say that at all. I explicitly stated that I don't think offensiveness is grounds to silence any speech. However, the refusal to allow them to post their display in public is legitimate. For the same reasons that the personal insults rule on the site is legitimate.

It is. Maybe some backwater lawless nations could be considered freer, but the US is by far the country with the highest level of free expression in the West. You can say anything you want without fear of government reprisal. That is not the case in: Germany, where you have free speech as long as you never mention the Nazis or Hitler; Canada, where you have free speech unless you upset someone, or have the potential to upset people; France, where you can hold whatever religious beliefs you want as long as you're not a Muslim or Catholic. Need I go on?

That's freedom of the press, genius.

Again, freedom of the press. And frankly, the press is allowed to publish whatever they want, it's just that there's a possibility of them getting sued for it afterwards.

Through your tattered English, babby's first anti-theism, and juvenile understanding of free speech, it's quite impossible to glean the intelligence necessary for you to make this claim.

Or the rational road and be agnostic.

Personal insults don't get you anywhere dude.... How very christian of you Love thy neighbour? My ass....

You did in previous posts. And again, is the public display that shows christian symbols and shit which are offensive to other religious groups legitimate or not? My point is: Either there is a right to display it for EVERY religious group including non-religious, or no one should display it. thats what freedom is.

Please demonstrate this by going to a public square and start shputing that Allah will destroy the US. No government reprisal? You will be taken without charges, kept away.

Germany: I can not only talk about Hitler and Nazis in puplic, I do every day at my university
Canada: You might confuse that with Britain, where "breaching the peace" is what you described. Never heard of it from Canada. But I may be misinformed on that one.
France: France is a mostly catholic country.... you should read a book or something

Yes, please continue. I want to laugh my ass off a little bit more

I gave an example. And, quite frankly, Freedom of Press is a form of Freedom of Speech....

It's like I am talking to GeneralofCarthage.
Boy, I know you think highly of yourself and stuff. But attacking someone who speaks in a foreign language, really? I wrote before: I speak German and Polish as my native languages, English and Italian fluently and I can read and translate Latin and (Ancient) Greek.
Feel free to tell me which of these languages you speak, and we can continue this discussion in a language that is foreign to us both, so none of us has the idea to try and insult the other for speaking his 3rd language.

You are assuming he is an anti-theist though.


Now lets face it, if you are not religious in some way or form, you will not be elected to be president of the US. Is that wrong? In my opinion, no. It is not wrong. I am an atheist, but I confess I would rather have a religious person in charge of the country than an atheist. Do you know why? The president is supposed to represent the people of this nation, and 80% (according to statistics I saw on this thread) of those people are religious. I'm afraid that in that sense, an atheist can not represent the people of our nation. I'd rather have someone that acts in the best interests of the people overall than someone who does not believe in the same thing as much of the country does. That's just my two cents. Take it as you will.