François Hollande wins in France

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by crocve, May 6, 2012.

  1. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    What?! The Austrians beat the crap out of the Ottomans after their initial losses, and pretty much had most of Italy as their vassals/servants until Italian unification. The Austrian emperors also managed to become kings of Spain, which subsequently conquered most of the Americas, and when the Spanish "acted up" they conquered most of their European territories...WW1 was pretty bad, but hey, why don't you try conquering another country while at the same time keeping all those pesky minorities suppressed
  2. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    im sorry if we were poor fighters you know the make-the-world-a-better-place-for-everybody thingy was keeping us busy.
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  3. Jingles Well-Known Member

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    Touché.
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  4. The Evil Major Well-Known Member

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    ... And the last
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  5. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    Well you re wrong we won Second Italo-Ethiopian War ,WW1 and the italo-turkish war(also called Libyan war)
  6. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    ABut the Turks and Ethiopians didn't lose twice to the Italians. The French were the first and only nation to do that lol.
  7. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    well the austrian army lost 3 times against us
  8. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    Not really if I recall history correctly... Could you perhaps mention the 3 times?(please don't say WW1)
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  9. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    meh they lost against italians twice in the italian wars for indipendence (second and third war for indipendence)and their last defeat was during ww1 where italian army broke austrian defenses and shattered their army.
  10. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    They didn't really win the second or the third war of independence. The French(oddly) won the second. They had a far larger force(something like double) present against the Austrians than the Italians ever had. The third was won by the Prussians, because they distracted the Austrian armies and eventually defeated them. The Italians wouldn't have a chance by themselves.
    Italy preformed abysmal in WW1. They attacked an unprepared, overstreched and distracted former ally in the back, and they still managed to get defeated and utterly humiliated at Caparetto until the end of the war, where it was already decided.
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  11. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    Well they still have lost the 2 wars of independence against Italians (at the time of the second war of independence France and Italy had a defensive alliance which means france could join Italy in the war only if the austrians were the aggressors and Italy the victim of the attack , about prussia well they have won the war for us its true but you know a win is a win ) im sorry i dont make the rules and of course we coudnt make on our own ("Italy ")kingdom of sardinia was a little nation at the time and they fight an empire they needed help! about ww1 yea you re right we sucked bad at Caporetto but you re wrong about the battle of Piave as history tells it " A clear failure(the austrian offensive on the piave), the operation struck a major blow to the army's morale and cohesion and had political repercussions throughout war-weary Austria-Hungary.The battle signaled the end of its army as a fighting force and the beginning of the collapse of the Empire, which was finished off at the Battle of Vittorio Veneto four months later".
  12. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    Moral of the story is that Italy can only beat France and Ethiopia, and France can't beat anyone unless a non-Frenchman does it for them.
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  13. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    Meh... who cares i still think that France is a great country better than most of the nations out there.
  14. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    Well they still won the war for you... I realise that Sardinia made good use of diplomacy on this occation but it was still the french who sent the most men to fight the Austrians in return of Savoy and Nice.
    Well that's true, but I would still say that it was Prussia who won the war, and not Italy, though they were on the winning side...
    While the battle at Vittorio Veneto was indeed devastating for Austria-Hungary, I think the war was already concluded by this point. The final spring offensive of the Germans had failed to win the overall war, the allied blockade was starving Germany and American reinforcements were arriving in large number in France.
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  15. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    The Kingdom of Sardinia was smaller than Texas and for obvious reasons they had a smaller army than France
    so Victor Emanuel II did everything he could to win against the powerful austrian empire.

    i agree with you the third war of independence was won by Prussia and Italy only took advantage of Bismark's dream of a powerful and unified german nation to win the war but still we fought that war and even if someone else ended it we earned the victory, back then we were cautios about which nations we could use as allies, sadly we lost that Cautiousness
    in 1939 .

    The war was at a turning point and without russia plus its whole army still intact the austrian empire could endured in a trench war for months maybe a year but with the battles of piave and vittorio veneto it collapsed on itself.
  16. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    Since we pretty much agree about the first two, I'll only address WW1.
    Germany was nearing collapse, and even a complete victory in Italy couldn't have prevented that. The main thing behind this was the blockade. Germany was literally starving to death and had already lost 0.5 million people due to starvation. With the winter of 1918-1919 coming, they had to surrender unless they wanted to lose millions to starvation. The German, and thus also the Austrian, surrender would have come whether or not a major breakthrough in Italy(for either side) had been achieved.
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  17. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree because the italian victory marked the end of the war on the italian front, secured the dissolution of the Austrian Empire and was crucial in ending the First World War less than two weeks later i understand that the central powers were doomed but with Vittorio Veneto the war ended far earlier than expected and that spared many human lives.
  18. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, the failure of the Spring Offensive and the rest of the Western Front was much more important to the Germans who, after all, had the final say and who were the supreme leaders of the Central Powers. Vittorio Veneto was not something that bothered the Germans hugely. The Allies would never be able to take the mountain passes unless they were willing to sacrifice millions for little gain.(well even less than usual) A surrender would have come either way, though the Austrians might, and I must stress might, have gotten away with a more lenient peace.
  19. Daddy92 Well-Known Member

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    i know and understand that the battle wasnt the principal cause of the german defeat but was atleast one of the major factors behind it because without the austrian empire (defeated in the battle of vittorio veneto),and with the 1918 revolution germany wasnt able to continue the war.
  20. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    The Austrian Empire more or less collapsed from starvation and civil dissent, not minimal Italian gains.

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