Russia: we hate you too, we just forgot about you

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by Kali, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. MayorEmanuel Do not weep, for salvation is coming.

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    436
    Trophy Points:
    143
    I would argue that the Magna Carta was put in place by the nobles to protect their privileges and English Common Law is what ended serfdom in England.
  2. Demondaze Xenos Scum

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,456
    Likes Received:
    925
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    TEXASLOL
    And you'ed be right. Still puts the abolition of serfdom before the founding of the colonies.
  3. Ingvar Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Message Count:
    181
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Wtf Am I reading?
  4. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    A very off-topic discussion about colonial America, Medieval England, and Victorian-era France.
  5. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,310
    Likes Received:
    668
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Scattered to the 4 corners of Earth
    No....but we've already sorted this one out.
    I didn't say they weren't democratic. I said they were a failed democracy. Which is why it was changed.
    Once again, already rejected.
    It was a democracy, however halfhearted. It was a fairly well working one too, and 1 in 7 of people in England is not just the rich and nobles.
    See above.
    It was a "democracy" for a little before Napoleon too, albeit a violent one.
    Germany would still have a Kaiser if not for the treaty.
    I don't especially care about what they do, and I'm certainly not going to go educate myself on the inner workings of an obviously failed democracy. I'm trying to tell you that they don't deserve scorn because of this, they're hardly the first country to have experienced failed democracies, and some of today's strongest democracies originally started with turmoil and failures.
  6. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    Wrong

    If you're not even going to bother to learn (which, as a student, you should be ashamed to admit) then don't debate. Just because an incompetent government is common doesn't make it acceptable.
  7. Ingvar Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Message Count:
    181
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    78
    I'm not too sure if your government is too competent either you know.
  8. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,310
    Likes Received:
    668
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Scattered to the 4 corners of Earth
    Oh really? Do you think the Germans would have had some nice popular revolution against the Kaiser? Of course not. They were doing well until WW1, they hadn't lost a war and had become a major player on the world stage.
    Do you honestly expect me to waste my valuable time learning about a government that is not working and isn't even the same in reality as it is on paper? Why don't you tell me what atrocities you're claiming happened and I'll go look them up, but I'm not going to go through a list of atrocities throughout Russia's history and try to figure out what the hell you're on about.
    No, you're right, it doesn't. But it also doesn't make it the worse thing in the world, and it doesn't make them deserve our scorn. Why don't we actually try to help people out for once, instead of sitting and being like, "Yeah look at those assholes with their failing government, how stupid of them blah blah blah"
  9. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    They did you idiot.

    Yes, I do. If you're not going to learn something, then don't talk about because then you sound like a child trying to talk with adults. You know, like what you are.

    It really is one of the worst things in the world. The Russian government has influence over millions of people, they're not allowed to be incompetent. When they are, they have failed and deserve our scorn.
  10. VladimirGLenin Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Message Count:
    616
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Edmonton,Canada
    Can't we all agree that every god damn government in the history of this planet has had SOME level of incompetence???
    I mean come on!!
    General Mosh likes this.
  11. Ingvar Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Message Count:
    181
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Damn, people on these forums love spreading hate, how pathetic is that?
  12. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,310
    Likes Received:
    668
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Scattered to the 4 corners of Earth
    Are you referring to the German Revolution of 1918 to 1919? You do realize this came as a result of the armistice and German war failures right....?
    How many times do I have to tell you age doesn't fucking matter on an internet forums. Its not a valid point. Its stupid and it makes me take your argument less seriously when you resort to trying to attack me with it. Seriously, if you want to debate then debate. If you want to attack me based on age then don't respond. Dumbass. Furthermore, I just thought about it and why the hell would I need to know about a government to know what atrocities it committed? I did a quick google search, since you're too fucking lazy to tell me about what you're referring to. All it came up with is some article by the human rights watch about Chechnya. Well lets clarify something here. Chechnya is a terrorist safe haven which was almost in a state of open revolution. We have a thread on these forums dedicated to bashing that shithole. So I'm really not too worried about what some overzealous dumbass soldiers went and did in a crappy little terrorist infested area. Sure, its bad, but they hardly deserve our scorn for it. The US has done worse in Iraq and Afghanistan, and by your logic you should also scorn you own country.
    There are so many things wrong with this statement. It made me laugh and cry at the same time.
    Do you know how childish this statement is? They're not allowed to do it!!!! I imagined a 5 year old saying this. And you dare to try and use age against me.
    I don't really think they care about your scorn. None of this actually answered what you quoted, either.
  13. Demondaze Xenos Scum

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,456
    Likes Received:
    925
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    TEXASLOL
  14. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    It came as a result of Germany losing the war, there was nothing in the treaty that said Germany had to democraticize. (If that's a word)


    I suppose you're right, age doesn't matter on forums as long as children don't act like children. You act like a child who refuses to listen to other people. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum that are your age and younger that don't act as juvenile and offensive as you do.

    Congratulations on doing something that you should have done before you posted. Yes, Chechnya is one of the atrocities I'm referring to, along with the election fraud. If you really think that everyone in Chechnya is a terrorist and Russia was justified in using planes on highly populated civilian centers then you're as callous about human life as Kali or Che is.

    What's worse than a bad government? I can't think of many.

    HOLY SHIT LOOK AT ALL THOSE EXCLAMATION MARKS! WE GOT A BADASS OVER HERE! If you think a government is allowed to be incompetent then you have a very sad idea about what a government is supposed to do.

    It isn't Russia's job to care about my scorn, it's their job to care about the Russian people's scorn.
    Melanthropist likes this.
  15. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,310
    Likes Received:
    668
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Scattered to the 4 corners of Earth
    You're right. But it does force a change in government
    Its called war. Have you ever heard of this "war" Duke? These things happen. All the major powers have done it. Some to their own people, some to other people, some to certain ethnic groups. Its all wrong. But in the end, this is war, and unfortunately such bombing attacks were necessary to end the war. Maybe you don't remember the tens of thousands killed in allied bombing raids in WW2? Or the thousands killed when we dropped bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Or the 105,052 - 114,731 killed in our conflict in Iraq?

    I didn't know election fraud was an atrocity...

    What makes you think you can decide what a government is "allowed" to do. Who made you the judge of who is incompetent or not? Of course a government shouldn't be incompetent. But many governments are, perhaps more than there are competent ones. And all the competent ones had an incompetent one lead up to them.
    Maybe the Russian people give them scorn, maybe they don't, I'm not Russian and I don't particularly want to be. But for someone who seems to care so much about what the people think maybe you should consider that you can't change a country if everyone else in the world hates you anyways.
  16. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    Yes, I do know about war, a lot more than you do. My cousin doesn't have a fucking leg anymore thanks to war. War, which is an atrocity all it's own, can be tolerated when you don't bomb civilians. Russian citizens. Go look at Karakoran's post in the Chechnya thread and you can look at the number of innocent civilians they killed for no fucking reason. Your defense of their massacre disgusts me and your defense of their corrupt government disgusts me even more. You have no sense of morality or compassion toward your fellow human and you can just accept that a government kills their constituents.

    Of course it is. It's practically a coup of the government.

    The people decide what a government is supposed to do and when it fails them, like Russia has, then that government loses legitimacy. Are you saying that the Russian government is competent? I'd love to see that.

    What are you talking about? You are not making sense in this section.
  17. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,310
    Likes Received:
    668
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Scattered to the 4 corners of Earth
    I'm not defending the fucking massacres, don't try and twist my posts to say that. Remember you're talking to someone who has constantly debated against Kali and you and Shaw and others for third world citizens and others that need our help. What I'm trying to say is that this is war, these things are expected, all countries do them. US drones constantly bomb and kill innocent civilians, for one, and that's happening now. What I'm saying is its horrible, but you shouldn't act like the Russians deserve all the world's scorn for it, because in that case then the US and others deserve our scorn too.
    I'm not going to argue with you here. I agree. Except its not an atrocity. Saying its not an atrocity doesn't mean that I support it, it just means its silly to call it an atrocity.
    I'm not saying they're competent. I'm not saying they're incompetent either. Its up to the Russian people to decide, and I'm 102% sure you're not Russian.
    Read it again. If you still don't get it than maybe I'll explain it for you.
  18. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    You're defending Russia, and by extension the US's, murder of innocents by saying "that's war." That sounds like you're defending the massacres to me. The US does deserves scorn for it but, as a US citizen, I'm in a position to help change that whereas in Russia's case I can't do anything.

    It's an atrocity as much as the German occupation of France was an atrocity. A government that they didn't vote in is now lording over them. It's an atrocity.

    They decided the government wasn't competent when they didn't vote for Putin. Seeing as how Putin is in power currently, that should tell you how much faith the Russian people have in their government.

    What I'm getting from it is that you think I'm trying to change Russia in a way that will result in the rest of the world hating me, even though I've never said anything about changing Russia.
  19. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,310
    Likes Received:
    668
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Scattered to the 4 corners of Earth
    So why bother to bitch and moan and scorn?

    An atrocity is an extremely wicked or cruel act. Election fraud is bad, but its not either of those. Its not an atrocity and its certainly not on the level as the German occupation of France.

    Ok...

    Well what I'm saying is that it is difficult for the Russian people to change their government democratically or otherwise if the rest of the world scorns them. You need support from other people in the world.
  20. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    To raise awareness.

    How is living under a government that the majority of people don't want not "extremely wicked or cruel?"

    Why would Russian people need outside support to change their own country?

Share This Page

Facebook: