Ancient History

ANCIENT HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O.k even still, if your trying to win an argument your going to have to step out of your boundary and make references. Which i went out of my way to give an example, so Honestly fuck you.

As far as you can go in this thread-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history

I Find ancient history to be from the Egyptian up until the fall of Rome, however i still gave you something you can reference.

I say the Death of Justinian.

Yeah, they became the most industrialised and one of the most powerful nations in Europe.

Who knows. Technology wise, the Renaissance would've easily spread it to Iberia, they'd only have to manage their infrastructure more, which I don't think should be too hard in the Iberian terrain.

If you'd go a thousand years back from when the Spanish discovered the Americas, the Aztec nation didn't even exist yet, and Constantinople was the greatest city in the world.

If they did have a warrior code, I assume they relied more on personal skill than tactics, which the Romans and Spanish had much more of. The Romans didn't randomly run towards their enemies, they had a good understanding of tactics in battle.

And that Mongol quote is amazing and shows exactly why warrior code thingies are bullshit.

Then I can't imagine the Spanish thought the Aztecs were just uncilized idiots.

No, they had no chance in the long run. Even if the Spanish wouldn't have had their local allies, or the disease, don't forget they initially sent 500 men. If they'd have the Armada send an actual army, it'd be a massacre.

Defensively, it was nigh unbeatable, although the flanks were quite weak. The idea was indeed very well thought out, although without decent support, it can get easily outmanouvred by, say, legionnaires.

Tribal wars between small villages can hardly be compared with wars like the Crusades and the Reconquista. The Mesoamericans weren't large nations, with a few exceptions being the Maya and Aztec. The real trouble began when the Conquistadors arrived.

Who's to say the Europeans got it from the Mongols? The European colonial powers never had any contact with the Mongols, who never got further into Europe than Poland.

What? So you think the Europeans persecuted religious enemies for the hell of it? You don't think these extremist Muslims believe women are lesser people? You think they have not a single reason, how bad it might be, for the homophobia? In all their minds, they think they were right. Were they? Fuck no. Neither were the Aztecs. I also don't see what Persia and Christianity have to do with eachother, but I guess you just had to put in some hate towards them somewhere.

I could say they were cuddly paella makers, but that would be hypocritical.

Then it's probably a better idea to use the argument against him. It really does help in an argument.

That is true, the Romans did have insane amounts of resources and manpower.

Ah, like that, I thought you meant burning infected bodies. Yeah, they did have something against Jews...no idea why, they played quite the role in making the Dutch and British economic powerhouses.

I didn't mean the severity of the disease itself (although I'm prretty sure I'm immune to most of these diseases due to the Plague), but the scale. Yes, percentage wise the numbers are pretty equal, but in Europe, well, let me just quote this:

At the time, the Plague had claimed more victims than there lived people in Mesoamerica.

Yes you did.

The course of the Aztec civilisation went from the 14th to the 16th century, which also happened to be the start of the Renaissance in North Italy, which had barely anything to do with the Ottomans or the fall of Constantinople. In that time, culture and inventions flourished in that area, which spread to Germany and the Low Countries, and the rest of Europe. Leonardo da Vinci had made sketches of inventions which were perfected only in the 19th and 20th century. But of course, he had no concept of ideas.

So how about them Gauls.

Read Asterix & Obelix!

And Vercingetorix. Wait Im seeing a patter here....

DAMN YOU JULIUS CAESAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the Chinese history isn't ancient? You surely know nothing about China.

I don't think you can really devide Chinese history into Western time periods... When did the Chinese have their Renaissance or age of enlightenment?

They really didn't have one like the Europeans did, The Chinese history has a tendency to just repeat its self over and over and over.

You mean like the fact that dynasties have been overthrown and replaced numerous times during the last 2000 years?

Industrialization far better then staying an agricultural based country.

It was one of the second places of Europe the Renaissance spread too, mostly because like Italy the Arabs had a stake in its land and brought ideas forward.

Yep you are correct, Fuck yeah Eastern Roman empire

Personal Skill, I would give it to the Aztecs (More Physically demanding and tougher enivornment) The Romans had really great understanding of Tactics, though towards the later end of the Empire that declined.

War is war, though you can bring some honor to war, is it better to live with dishonor or to die with honor?

Sadly though the average Spanish solider who saw Aztec cities called them vastly superior to there's, there was just one problem "They weren't bloody Catholic" which automatically made them worth shit in the Crown and Churches eyes.

Who knows maybe the Same thing that happened to the Spanish Armada to take Britain would have happened to the Spanish Armada sent to take Aztec land.

When the Romans and Greeks did fight, you'll notice the Greeks had a very huge lack of horses and archers during the battle. Something Alexander the Great always brought with him.

Still continua raiding bands of a couple thousand people make some serious headway against your people, Just look what the German Tribes did to the Romans.

History says it, The Mongals spread it either by trade we're they just honestly didn't know they we're sick and since the trade routs all lead to Europe and China, it was bound to spread. They also spread it by dumping there bodies over walls to infect the people, or throwing diseased animals into trade courts to send it to other cities.

For once in Europe's long and brutal history, trade (and the mongols kick ass military) we're there downfall. Actually alot of Mongols remains are being found in Austria, Hungry, and Germany. Not to mention the French signed a peace treaty with the Mongols bagging for there lives.

Extremist Muslims piss me off and are insult to Muhammad, And until the Arabs absorbed Persian culture they had the best view towards women then any other nation before. It's not hate its fact, hate goes from me hating the Persians, honestly i love them and respect alot of there view points however they had a rather poor view towards women and it cultural shifted into Arab culture.

Next So what the Aztecs killed people, if they didn't the gods would be pissed and also so did the Druids....well until Julius Caesar killed them all for it.

The Spanish now the Cuddly paella makers of the world.

Indeed.

Almost too much, and they got cocky with it.

Well my theory on it is that the Jewish houses at the time we're realtivly clean and they kept more pets then the rest of Europe, More pets+ Clean houses= Less rats, Less rats= Less Plague. Thus the people saw this as OMG THE JEWS ARE SPREADING IT, LETS BLOODY KILL THEM BECAUSE WE'RE SCARED AND HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME THIS ON.

Bigger Population, Still 50-70% of any Civilization either European or Aztec is going to cause alot of Problems.

The other great thing Islam did for the culture of Europe; was the destruction of the Byzantine empire With the decline of the Byzantine Empire by the sultans (Islamic) and its capitals sacking by crusaders during the 4th crusades, many of the able body Byzantines left and went to the nearest ports, which usually lead to Italy and of course Sicily. But the main influx of a now blend of Arab-Greek Culture according in 1453 with the destruction of the Byzantine empire at the hands of the ottoman Turks. This influence of byzantine culture lead to the renaissance in Italy and thus across Europe.

many Greeks, such as John Argyropoulos and Constantine Lascaris, fled the city and found refuge in the Latin West, bringing with them knowledge and documents from the Greco-Roman tradition to Italy and other regions that further propelled the Renaissance. (A Essay of mine on the Subject)

The history of China being debated about in this thread is medieval.

The ancient Chinese ends once the Han empire fall.

You can't necessarily DIVIDE Chinese history into the same eras-sections as you do Western history, but you CAN go by years. i.e. 'in 1519, the Spainish landed in the Americas, meanwhile in the same year in China...'

Generally, the Han Dynasty is considered to be the highest point in Chinese history. They called it 'the Golden Age' and many advancements were made at the time. People in China still tend to call themselves 'the people of Han' and rightly so, as 85-95% of the population of modern-day China is of Han ethnic decent and most of the minorities, if not all, have Han blood mixed in.

This is true, but most Dynasties were known for their own periods of enlightenment. At least, the major Dynasties are. Take the Tang and Song Dynasties for example. It is debatable whether they had 'greater' periods of enlightenment than the Han did, but they are still well-known and famous for their own acheivements.

Technically, I'm pretty sure that the Han were considered part of the 'Classical Era' in Western history.

Though Wikipedia says its 'Imperial', I get the impression that they kind of lumped alot of the Chinese Dynasties into a single catagory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history
That is a NICE interaction map they have...