Chinese Politics Superthread

Oh look, a authoritarian capitalist regime!

...this is a new thing?

You can only become member of the Communist Party of China if you have a family member or some other kinda connection with the party. And you must be invited by someone.

I meant the general consensus of people. Not just the forum-goers. Turns out, about a fourth of the forum is extreme-leftist too, but that's not an accurate statistic for all people.

It's a proportional thing. If China could they would invade Mongolia. And remember, when we invade, we don't annex. China does. We set up a democracy and do our best to defend it. China doesn't.

Are you just going to ignore that they're the only ally of a regime that represents almost all the flaws of Mankind? Maybe you'll ignore that most of the population of both Koreas want to be united once more, and that it is only China (and now WMDs) that prevents them.

Oh, you thought the Chinese government actually did accurate testing? It's laughable. And they "cheat" the tests all the fucking time.

And did you think they actually went out to those rural towns where education = guy with a chalkboard in the Town Hall? No, they only focus on the best they can get and remain ration.

Look at China's education budget. Then look at the billion people they need to educate. It's impossible for them to have that high of a rating.

A little quote about it.
"I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me."

That doesn't just refer to the divine sense. That refers to lust, love, and even nationalism. A true Catholic would follow the Church before any person, place, thing, or idea on this Earth.

Even then though, it is nothing to be to concerned about. But some STILL follow those Archbishops and Bishops AFTER the Church excommunicates them. They shouldn't give that Archbishop the time of day, much less follow him.

They should not falsely claim to be Catholic and then follow an excommunicated Bishop. It's more of something that presses my buttons than a passionate hatred of China.

Fine then, tyrannical regime.

God's Victor refers to the Pope.

The more you know.

Kurdistan isn't new to being part of Turkey. So Kurdistan deserves oppression?

Off and on they were independent, if you remember they even conquered China once or twice. So I suppose China should be subject to Mongolia?

No. Mongolians do not want to be Chinese, China has no claim to it.

The West is in a rut, in case you didn't notice. China is more powerful than ever. It only makes sense. Of course, the West sends humanitarian aid with the intention of helping people. China sends humanitarian aid with the intention of an alliance.

Half of the aggressive anti-china comments seem to be fuelled by fear of something they don't understand. Mostly Americans.

I do find it hard to take this seriously when the US has sponsored many a coup in the past, even if it meant ridding a nation of democracy, for personal gain. Not saying China was right to annex Tibet but still.

Then I should probably move where you live. Not alot of Chinese support over here.

Have you ever seen Mongolia?! Its little more than a bunch of nomadic tribes that the Russians persuaded to settle down a bit to form their own country and take a huge chunk of China in the process. They have been a part of a Chinese country ever since the Yuan Dynasty. You know... the MONGOLIAN-CHINESE Dynasty?
And your invasions really seem to be going well...

No, I don't ignore any of that. The U.S. is more the force that is preventing the union of the two than China. It has tons of troops across the border in South Korea. China, last I checked, had pulled out everything but support systems and advisory boards. I would LOVE to see a united Korea in my time. But it won't happen if the U.S. remains there. If they leave, the Chinese would probably kick Kim to the curb. The U.N. Coruts Curb. His only value is keeping the U.S. from gaining ANOTHER foothold in the Asia.

I was speaking of the international competitions. Usually administered by and in the States or Europe. No cheating there.

That is a proportions argument. Of course they would send their best, who wouldn't? And China has alot of people, not everyone can participate. Have you any idea how hard it is just to make sure everyone has that 'crappy' education that you complain about?

Possibly. It could be a matter of the Chinese worrk ethic though. Work hard to beat the ferice competition.

He isn't excommunicated. He's just appointed. And the Chinese can believe in whatever they want.

Proof? Last I checked, there are more Mongolians in China than in Mongolia.

China looks after its own interests, same as anybody else.

I don't think you understand just how bad it tended to get when a nation went "Communist".

Also, most of our coups are of dictators that get replaced with dictators. That's more of status quo. In case you forgot, we invaded Japan and replaced it with a democracy. We invaded (south) Korea and made it democratic. All of Western Europe, and that even came to bite us in the ass when the Communists tried to weesel their way into France and Italy.

Where do you live exactly?

Ya, and you know what the Yuan Dynasty didn't own? Far Western China. So I suppose that area should be free to become its own country?

You can't overlap historic claims and only use the ones that benefit you.

We don't have any combat troops in Iraq, so unless you want to count a few medics and advisors as an invasion force that war is, for all intensive purposes, over.

Afghanistan is going pretty fine. If the Afghan government was more stable we'd have already won, sadly Afghanistan is not a very stable place. It should improve in time though, meanwhile we will bleed the Insurgency white.

America is there to protect South Korea. That's pretty cosmic logic, btw. In a struggle between a free prosperous democracy and a poverty-stricken autocracy you've decided to blaim the free prosperous democracy's supporters for preventing unification.

Then they use the best canadites they can. The Chinese find a way.

America wouldn't, Europe wouldn't, China would. We want accurate testing, China wants high scores.

That's one of the greatest steriotypes ever invented of China and most East Asians.

The Church excommunicated a bunch of the Chinese Catholic Clergy a while back, I'm assuming the Archbishop was involved.

Yes, but they must believe in Catholism to be Catholic. This is not a difficult concept. If they want they can form their own branch of Christianity. They don't, and instead falsly claim to be Catholic.

I don't think that's accurate. Besides, that further proves that Mongolians who want to be Chinese are already able to leave for China, if they havn't already.

Same as the Red Cross?

Great economic system? Didn't know you shifted from your laissez-faire economic theories (state controls the "commanding heights"). If anything the growth has been export driven.

Don't need to, really. More and more Chinese are moving into Mongolia with the government's backing. In a couple of years, they will have enough people there [having moved there of their own free will] to call a democratic vote in Mongolia [as, I believe, Mongolia is a democracy] to join China, either in borders or in a commonwealth. There are already a disproportionate amount of Mongolians to Chinese in Mongolia, soon, if not already, they will outnumber the nomadic Mongolians. In any case, the Mongolians are already economically and politically tied to China by the SCO. And culturally due to China's sphere of influence. There is a reason why they were part of China before, you know.
And about Tibet... you do realize that there are more Tibetans in the provinces neighboring Tibet than actually in Tibet, right? And that the ethnic Han outnumber all the minorities of China combined in all of the provinces? And they support the government. Even if it were a democratic vote, those provinces could never pull away. They would simply be out-voted.

Like the Japanese, the South Koreans are getting more and more restless under America's shadow. There have already been riots and calles for withdraw in the past. They simply don't see the threat anymore. You have no reason to be there. China will certainly not invade. And North Korea is practically on a leash. China doesn't mind the idea of a DEMOCRATIC Korea, just a Korea under America's thumb.

Where in the world do you live?! Every country enters their best into the competitions. Hence competition. The whole point is to put up your best.

Standing from where I am, it is simple logic. More people, more competition. That breeds a culture of hard workers. And if it is a myth, then why do so many prominent buisnessmen [and women], politicians, and people believe it and see the proof?

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. As far as they are concerned, they are Catholic and there is nothing that the Vatican has done to discredit their individual statuses as such.

Last I checked, Red Cross is an orgainization, not a country. Their sole purpose is to benefit the unfortunate. Countries and their respecitive governments are usually formed to benefit their citizens.

So much nonsense has been said here.

First off I'll address the glaringly obvious:

Catholics in China are forced by the Chinese government to either accept the Chinese 'Church' hierarchy or else retain their religious beliefs and be disappeared by the Chinese government. No Chinese Catholics WANT to replace the Pope, but to avoid being thrown in labor camps or simply vanish in the night they have to submit to the state. It's fucking monstrous and is no small part in the reason that I despise the Chinese government.

Second, and most importantly, Imperial, you have been on the offensive the entire time. The wrongdoings of other countries does not excuse or in any way lessen the atrocious crimes committed on a daily basis by the Chinese government. This thread is about China, not about the US or Europe. Thus, not only does it not make any argumentative sense to say "Yeah, well you guys do bad stuff too, so it's okay," but it is also way off topic. For a proponent of organized argument, you certainly aren't staying on track in your own superthread.

Modern day China is the epicenter of the greatest and largest scale humanitarian crisis of this century. All of you who have 'meh' opinions, or oppose the US need to wake up and look at what you're laying with. You don't have to like the West, but by God you should NOT like China.

@ Kali
1. Where did I say that I supported it? For future reference: I don't. I understand China's reasons for it and think them to be understandable, but I don't like them.

2. I never said that they don't do things that are wrong or that they do not have to change. I simply pointed out that the concept that China is some den of sin and the U.S. and the West is some shining kingdom of glory is not just misleading, but outright wrong.

Does China need some change?
Yes.
But is anyone in a position of such sainthood as that they can point fingers without people pointing out their own hypocracy?
No. Not by a long shot in most, if not all, cases.

The purpose of the tread was to encompass all future debate on the topic of Chinese politics and/or China itself. Comparing China to its critics falls in line with that, as it is a ligitimate point to point out the hypocracy of the others' arguments.
And for that matter, my OP didn't include much more than the basic premise of the discussions to take place. It didn't specify any particular manner in which the discussions were to take plece.
And I did not start debating in earnest until some young scholar desided to challenge China by comparing it to a country that they percieved to be better.
And besides, the controvercy around China is based on the belief that the U.S. and the West have adopted [incompletely] a system and set of laws and ways that they insist that everyone follows because they are 'better'.

Human rights are universal. Everyone has them because they are human. National differences do not allow anyone to violate them. Don't give that garbage about 'cultural differences' or 'subjectivity.' NO ONE should be sent into a forced labor camp or simply VANISH IN THE NIGHT because they believe in something. NO ONE should be afraid of their government. You are protecting garbage, absolute garbage, with no justification. Your nationalism blinds you utterly to the horrors that go on in China every day, but allows you to immediately hone in on the smallest of questionable policy decisions in the West. It's true, both of them commit wrongs, but the West is a child who got into a fistfight with his neighbor, China is like fucking John Wayne Gacy.

If you refuse to believe that, dispite your own grievences, people will continue to fight for and live under their own rule and their own ways, then there is nothing that I can do for you.

Did you miss my previous post?

1. No, it does not. I have repeatedly admitted to the faults of the Chinese government.
2. Your own rabid praise of the West blinds you. The West is by no means perfect, yet you make it seem so.

Whenever someone intelligent seeks to critisize a country, they always look deeply into that country. You do it, I do it, everyone that means to prove something ligitimately does it.
And my ability to understand that the West is not perfect in invaluble in defending that the Chinese are not some scum that can be looked down upon without hypocracy. Are they somewhat more questionable in their actions than their Western counterparts? Parhaps, but you remain of the notion that the West is perfect.

Already on that.

Thats between us and Taiwan. The U.S. should butt out.
And Japan I suppose...

From where I am standing, it looks like the Chinese have lost more community values than most civilizations ever had... and they still have more. Not to say that they shouldn't get them back, but the Westerners pushing Westernization on them is not helping...

Dem good damn Chineses are ruining the wurld! Kill dem kill dem all!

Watch out for the shitty mongowians!

Yeah! C_G knows who to loo out for!

They have plenty of community values. '

And its the Westernization that is largely responsible for the decline

Besides, Taiwan has preserved alot of the culture lost in the Cultural Revolution.