Free speech? Apparently not.

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by General Mosh, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    http://rt.com/usa/news/marine-stein-page-president-219/

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57410342/marine-sgt-gary-stein-should-mgo-for-criticizing-obama-on-facebook-board-says/

    http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/0...after-obama-criticism-on-facebook--74634.html

    What do you guys think? I think its absolutely disgusting and there should be no way any American should be prosecuted for speaking out against the president. I don't care that he was a member of the Armed Forces, the Constitution doesn't exempt them from their rights. The fact that he is being prosecuted is unconstitutional in and of itself and I sincerely hope this goes all the way to the Supreme Court so Obama can see he is not above criticism.
  2. RickPerryLover strawberries oh sweet Jesus strawberries

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    This is absolutely outrageous. Military Personnel should be able to express whatever view they like. End of discussion.
    General Mosh likes this.
  3. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    I believe he said that he would not follow Obamas orders, but he is answering to Obama (in a long command chain view thingy). He is supposed to follow his orders and there's a term they use for that in military, I believe it is insubordination. On other hand this was done in private and not in public. I would turn a blind eye on this one.
  4. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    All I have to say, is that when you join the armed forces, expect such shit to happen. You are in the army, and you answer to the president (Commander-in-Chief of Armed Forces). He was warned of the consequences, but continued to publicly attack his superiors. While it may be a violation of free speech, we kinda fucked free speech with the Patriot Act.
  5. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    When you enlist in the military you sign a contract saying you won't publicly express your political views. I don't really think there's a big case on this because it's really a matter of contractual law rather then free speech. The basic point is he consented at the time he enlisted to limit his speech rights. Nobody forced this guy into doing this. He was warned repeatedly by his command to stop doing this, and he was set to get out in a few months anyway, so there was no reason he couldn't have waited a few months to avoid the consequences.
  6. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Well, I still think he shouldn't be prosecuted for this. I don't see why soldiers can't criticize the government. I can see why they aren't allowed to criticize their generals publicly, but seriously, everyone should be able to criticize the president. Its his right, and you shouldn't be forced to forgo your rights by our military. In my opinion, a good publicity move by the president would be to give the guy a pardon and publicly announce that he values criticism.
  7. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    But Obama technically is a general. He is in command of all the armed forces of the US, and thus, is this soldier's superior.
  8. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Obama is a politician. Modern day politicians don't fight wars. Generals fight wars. I do not think Obama should be a general, or considered as the commander in chief. I think the commander in chief should be made a position which Obama can appoint for a term. Because the president should not be allowed to have the soul power over military forces.
  9. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    I agree, but the Constitution states that the President is the Commander in Chief of all armed forces.
  10. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    It's not matter of your opinion, but actual law.
  11. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    So is free speech, and the Constitution nor none of its amendments exempts the military from that law.
  12. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    But criticizing your Commander in Chief is insubordination, and there for, he was rightly punished.
  13. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Well generals don't exactly fight in trenches either(anybody over the rank of colonel is not allowed to go into combat), they plan and give orders and washington gives orders to them. And what would be the point in giving the position of commander in chief away? The general that gets the postion would still have to answer to the president.
  14. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    You don't have to join the military. But if you do, you agree to not speak about certain things. As pedro said, it's a contractual obligation, much like a non-disclosure agreement.

    Though there is also a federal law, the name of which I can't remember, that more or less prohibits federal employees (at least the State Department and Department of Homeland Security) from being politically active.
  15. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Indeed. You cannot go around shouting national secrets in the name of free speech or as political statement (under protection of free speech).
  16. LeonTrotsky Well-Known Member

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    Under the US system of government the President is the highest command in the armed forces. As pedro pointed out, as a soldier you voluntarily limit your free speech in order to serve. In effect, this soldier was both committing insubordination by insisting that he not follow his commander (Pres. Obama) and violated the contract that he signed with the United States' military.
  17. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    While it may be strictly legal, or rather illegal that this guy should not have been criticizing Obama. But, don't you guys agree he should be pardoned at least? Its wrong that he should be prosecuted for criticizing his commander. If commanders didn't get any criticism then they would be absolutely terrible at their jobs. Commanders need to know what their soldiers think. Its less morally damaging to an army if someone is loudly and vocally proclaiming their opinions, rather then grumbling under their breath and hating their commanders.
  18. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Like I said: I would turn a blind eye on a guy as long as he does not mention it public or disobey orders. But it's not up to me to decide nor does my opinion really matter.
  19. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    No I don't think a guy should be pardoned for violating one of the only 3 or 4 things (back when he enlisted it was dadt, aids, and drug use) that is enumerated in his contract as things that will get him kicked out. He knew the consequences of his actions and he made his choice. He literally could have waited 2-4 months and we would have been fine. Instead he chose to use his position as a service member to try and influence public opinion.
  20. sirdust Well-Known Member

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    As i read it he isn't prosecuted under law. To use a term from the free-market world, he just got fired!
    If a store clerk of apple goes on his facebook page, talking crap about Tim Cook, you can bet your ass he will get fired!
    Same applies here, free speach does not safe you, from being fired, if you insult your highest boss, same goes for the military if you piss on the leg of the man! This is specialy true for the military, they can't have their personell behave in this manner, it sets a verry bad example for other soldiers and it is really bad for moral and discipline. The fact that the highest military is a public figure and a politician, does cut people generaly some slack, but i guess he pissed of to many of his superiors allready, so they just used it to put the final nail in the coffin. But this is just a guess.

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