Pretty much, there are some things you mention later that God cannot do, but he can do most things and for the things he cannot do he has creatures that do it for him. Like running. God cannot run in the sense that we understand running, but he created physical things to run for him. God cannot lift as we know it, so it is an improper question. Also: A fallacy is not entertained by theology, law, or science. Backyard atheist arguments are, overall, quite useless. I assume you mean me, so I will respond in kind. Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa Theologica: "Being omnipotent God may do anything he wishes which demonstrates the perfection of true divine majesty and power." God gave humans the free will to choose their own paths. If a human desires to be disobedient, then God does his best to guide humans back to the proper path through love. The Boethian argument in one sentence: God is love, and he uses love to guide humans towards him; humans who love properly move towards God while humans who love improperly move away from God. So, God does give humans the tools to not be disobedient, yet they may be inefficient in its use. Because God gave everyone free choice, if they do not follow Christianity that is their own will. God has foreknowledge of what you are going to choose and predestines you to the suitable afterlife. I do not know how God chooses who is going where, but it is fun to think that he does so by pulling divine rabbits out of hats. Personally, I dunno. I'm not Christian (or religious). I think Shinto is quite interesting—currently.
Where does free will come in to play in Japan? Some one else said that god is about optimizing good. Where do natural disasters help in the optimization?
Well, earthquakes are caused by plate tectonics. It shows Earth has a molten core. One of the theories of life is that the combination of water and heat created the first life from inorganic chemical reactions (abiogenesis). The Grand Prismatic Spring is one of these modern day sites where micro bacteria thrive in the boiling rich mineral waters that come from a geyser. Thomas Aquinas believed in the evolution of humanity from a simpler form to one more complex over gradual time (Physcia & Summa Theologica), and many theologians before and after him have echoed this (Augustine, . It was during the Reformation that the Protestants started pushing for a literal reading of the Bible that things started to change; where instead of changing life, it was always static. Even the Catholic Church adopts this position, not that it makes much sense from their tradition. In proper theology, Earth is how God made it for a reason. With science, we now know why life is on Earth and not another planet, like Mars—not to say that Mars is any less of a brilliant thing. Earth is a very good planet for life, but being able to support life does not make nature less hospitable. The same instances that created life and made Earth livable also make it dangerous. I am definitely not moving to say that the recent earthquake near Japan was not tragic and the people their deserved it.
That is not what I was saying. I was saying that God generated Earth so it could support life, and a planet that supports life also happens to destroy it now and again. However to respond to your point: God gave human beings free will. We act as we see fit according to our natures. The Earth was given a set of rules within which it acts, and it does so according to its nature. God is an eternal being that exists always and experiences every moment in a single instant constantly. God has foreknowledge of your lives. He knows the actions that you will act before you act them. Knowing everything and having a plan are different. There is the most literature on them, it makes them very interesting. Greco-Roman is entertaining, but there is not much written by the Greco-Roman community about their theological views towards their polytheistic beliefs. The mythos is diverse and definitely othering, but the deities are particularly two-dimensional in character. There is not much to struggle with or puzzle over in Greco-Roman polytheism.
If every action you take, you know the outcome, you can't really avoid calling it planed. I think a better word would be predetermined, and that's still a kick in the face of free will. Human free will an omniscience really don't go together. If he created the earth, he created the conditions fore emergence of life and evolution of that life. We are who we are because we evolved that way, and our every action or choice is determined by who we are, so no there is no free will (if there is a god). I see it as kind of a domino effect. To say it simply, we are who we are because god made it that way.
Free will exists as a concept that we have the ability to choose our own actions. For all intents and purposes we do. You can call it destiny, fate, 'God's Plan,' etc. but you don't know your own future. Whatever someone does is something they choose to do, even if it doesn't meet the 'absolute' qualification for free will.
I hate the concept of determinism because there's no way to make predictions based on the supposed absoluteness of the future. It's just like solipsism; if you're really the only conscious entity in existence... so what? It doesn't change reality. So I suppose the answer to that question is 'yes,' but only because God has optimized existence, and thus must have planned for everything to happen as it happens. Of course free will is, from our perspective, completely absolute.
If God knows our actions, then there is no free will. It also means that we were created by him to take certain actions, and thus were set up to fail. I guess he likes to watch us squirm.
@Kalalification I would say it like this: 2+2=4 but 4 has a consciousness, so it can say fuck this, but it cant change being a 4. If that makes sense. I don't know who or what made it like that I just don't believe it was a god.
We are bound only by our own decisions. You can try to shove off responsibility to God, but the fact of the matter is that we have free will. I am replying to this post because I chose to. Sure, God may have known this would occur, but that doesn't make it any less my choice. The perception of free will is the equivalent to free will. You can't give any more freedom of choice than we've got.
Well technically you can give more freedom of choice. Allot of our actions are sill based on instinct, and we really don't have a choice when it comes to them. Also emotions inhibit free will. Without them (Vulcan :ugeek: ) we would have a much more (boring) peaceful place. Huh maybe we are going in that direction, or we will nuke ourself way before that.
Emotions are actually better for free will than ration. We have desires, these drive us to commit acts that are not always rational. Why are we wasting our time typing about free will in a forum that not even 1% of the population will see? That is not a very rational thing. Emotional desires allow for the variety in choice that is displayed. If you were a fully rational being then you would only make the best choice all the time. Why make any choice but the best choice? that would be the most rational thing to do. Full ration would inhibit free choice. Having a plan would involve making a set of predetermined actions with an intended goal. Humans have free choice, we do what we want all the time. Humans live and experience time in a linear fashion and no more than one second is perceived in a second. Now, God is eternal. He experiences all of time at once and forever. He knows what we will do before we do it because he is eternally experiencing it. God does not make you do anything, he just knows what you are going to do. If I knew that you were going to respond to this post and you happened to choose to do it, that would not limit your free choice. By one knowing another's actions before they act them does not stop them from having free choice. That is not a domino effect, that is a non sequitur. Rube Goldberg machines have a domino effect. Evolution decides physical attributes and your genetic make-up. Personality, emotion, and actions are still decided by the individual. With or without God your animal instincts in your subconscious decide more for you then your conscious-self does. The very little free choice we do have beyond our evolution that is free is decided by the individual.
More and more I typed, more I realised that it doesn't really matter if god started it all, we are here. And by rereading what you wrote Autvvn, I think we agree. I hope this wasn't a waste of time.
This definitely not a waste of time, I enjoyed it. Glad we could come to a semblance of agreement. I'm not religious, I just enjoy good discussions.
To all the Catholics (Me being a Christian), Why do you believe in 3 beings as in God? The Father, Spirit, and Son? It only mentions that 1 time in the bible(Remember you Catholics changed the bible in many ways), and all the other times that there is only one God. It never says anything about a trininty. Please answer this.
The concept of Trinity is pretty central to most Christian denominations, not just Catholics... The only major non-Trinitarians are the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. There are several parts of the Bible which strengthen the Trinitarian position, not just one. Not sure where you're getting this nonsense. Also; how exactly did 'us Catholics' change the Bible?
Yeah one in three and all that. We Catholics believe in one. I assume by change the Bible you mean like the apple in Genesis. But I find through talking to my non-Catholic Christian friends that they are told things about Catholicism that just aren't true by their pastors. My one friend told me that his parents were taught that Catholics worship Mary as a goddess above God and make sacrifices of the Eucharist to her.
