WAS STALIN JUST A FORCE FOR EVIL??

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by J.F.K the communist, Jan 8, 2012.

?

STALIN GOOD OR BAD

Poll closed Jan 15, 2012.
STALIN WAS GOOD FOR THE SOVIET UNION 13 vote(s) 59.1%
STALIN WAS BAD FOR THE SOVIET UNION 12 vote(s) 54.5%
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  1. J.F.K the communist Member

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    He was a stupid idiot he lost Gearmany the war he just got in to power at the right time and at the right place Germany's economy would of boomed just the same if the communists had taken power. if you hate Nazi Germany (like me) are you love it you should hate Hitler as he for sure lost them the war.
  2. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    Whoever it was... About a sixth of the Polish population was killed in WW2...
    Achtung Kommunisten! likes this.
  3. Achtung Kommunisten! Well-Known Member

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    You're right. I'm sure they have plenty of quotes to that effect - things like 'the Germans oppressing us is a refreshing change from the Russians', or 'there's a maniac with a little mustache coming from the west, and a maniac with a big mustache coming from the east' or something similar. It's all very sad really.
    He was a fool; he had the whole world in his grasp and let it slip. But then none can deny he had something about him, he'd never have succeeded (well, got as far as he did).
    As for Germany's economy booming no matter who was in charge, I agree. Stereotypical Germany efficiency ftw!
  4. Toast Well-Known Member

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    When you are calling somebody stupid, try to spell "idiot" correctly.

    Hitler got rid of his opposition. If you were a German under Nazi rule, you most certainly had a job with good pay. It takes a very smart guy to conquer almost the entirety of Europe in a matter of years. It doesn't matter if he won the war (though he got very close), that in itself is a monumental achievement.

    Stop it with your "right place at the right time argument", because we just don't know if it could have. That is not set in stone, so don't use it in a debate.
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  5. Kalalification Guest

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    Hitler was most certainly not the brightest bulb in the bright bulb box. He was a demagogue and his personal intellect was average at best. It was his charisma that enabled him to take and hold power, not his intelligence.
  6. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    Indeed, we should all admire and praise the Holy Truman, with his containment politics, his anti-communist propaganda, and his

    Did you know (you probably did) that Churchill actually was the man who promised him those countries? There's a story about how Winston took a coaster and drew a ugly map of Europe, and then dragged a line somewhere in the middle and said: "East of this line is yours, west of this line is ours. You can have it as long as it'll be democratic." Boy, did he regret.

    I agree. A terrible person in social life, a great Machiavellian.

    What? Stalin was the guy who turned it into a superpower? How does that mean destroying a nation?

    EDIT:

    Kali, can you please change the title into something like 'Was Stalin a good leader?', 'cause this title screams for attention.
  7. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Granted, he wasn't all that smart, and he did fail at the Beer Hall Putsch and other endeavors, but I wouldn't necessarily say that charisma alone got him power. After all, he did manage to seize control of the country in the first place.
  8. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    I do have to admit that was very charismatic... Just listen to this speech (start at 8:21)... Unfortunately, I cannot find the speech on YouTube... So I'll try to translate it...

    http://deoorlog.ntr.nl/page/aflevering/1/De wraak van Duitsland

    Hitler: "The battle of peoples or the hate against one and other is maintained by certain with people with priorities... It is a small, international clique that has its roots nowhere... who instigate the peoples against each other... who do not want that they come to rest... It are the people who are everywhere and nowhere at home... those who have nowhere a place where they grew up... but those who today live in Berlin, tomorrow in Brussels if it's necessary... the day thereafter in Paris or Prague, or in Vienna or London... and those who feel like that they are at home everywhere."
    The audience: "Jews!"
    Hitler: "It are they only can really call "international elements", because you can do business with them everywhere. But the people can not follow them. The people are chained to their soil, chained to their homeland... and bound to the possibilities to live that the state offers them... the nation."

    BTW... I noticed that it was not quite easy to translate this, because of the difference in word order and Hitler's metaphorical way of speech...

    Edit:
    Yeah, I could have guessed that pretty much... as he spoke in early 1946 in terms like "iron curtain", "Soviet sphere" and "increasing measure of control from Moscow".
  9. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Uh yeah no



    Killed in Allied Aerial Bombardment
    370,000[8]
    Killed during the fighting in Berlin
    22,000[9]
    Killed by Soviet military and their allies in Eastern Europe (Including killed due military activity)
    150,000.[10]
    Killed by Nazis due to political, racial and religious persecution
    300,000 (Including 160,000 German Jews)[11]
    Killed in Nazi Action T4 euthanasia program
    at least 100,000[12]
    Total
    942,000
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  10. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    Btw, this Hitler bringing the nation from ashes is kinda true, but it was not him alone that brought germany to a world power once again.
  11. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    But it was mostly. Though fascism isn't a system you want to live in, the fact it's completely based on fear makes it the most efficient system out there.
  12. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    It is still impressive who he was able to conquer the nation...
  13. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Looking at Hitler's speeches, I very much see a real look of fear in the facial expression of Rudolf Hess.

    Stalin wasn't a master when it came to charisma, but you could tell that he had a deep-seated cynical sense of humor.
  14. ddbb089 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah how does Stalin dare to rebuild the Russian nation after WW1 and the civil war.
    How dare he defend his position from rebellious russians.
    How dare he made an economy that would be stable in an other World War.
    How dare he takes action on Nazis who killed thousands of his countrymen.
    How dare he wins a war and tries to be secure from the hostile americans.
  15. J.F.K the communist Member

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    Stalin was just a plain gangster who came to power because he wasn't afraid to kill and be ruthless. the is nothing to admire about him if you admire him well its just the same as admiring the Yorkshire ripper coming to think about its worse.
  16. Toast Well-Known Member

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    What?

    The Yorkshire Ripper didn't lead a backward country to being the most powerful in the world in 10 years. You don't seem to appreciate just how huge of a task that is. I doubt Stalin ever killed one person by his own hands. There was no doubt that he was ruthless, but that's not much of a problem in Stalin's case.
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  17. J.F.K the communist Member

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    Stalin did kill someone. before he joined the party he robbed banks and he killed plants then and then plenty soon turned in to millions. you see I would admire him for his achievements by getting the Russia's economy to grow and to turn it in two a superpower but he didt he put the cause backwoods in time another ten years whith the purges. if Lenin had lived longer the soviet union would of atuly been a success but some small ugly brute named Stalin took control and what Stalin did to the millions of Jews and peasants is unforgivable.
  18. Vassilli1942 Well-Known Member

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    Excepted for this ruthlessness, he did manage to make Soviet Union a Superpower and you have to give him that.
  19. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Stalin was a well known plant killer. He was commonly known by peasants as "herbicidal", and that is why he was exiled and sent to Siberia multiple times. Unfortunately, as Siberia is full of trees, the locals refused to imprison him. He kept on returning and being sent back to Siberia, like a game of hot potato, as it happened seven times. He ended up killing millions of plants. Stalin is known among gardeners as a "boogeyman" of sorts.
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  20. J.F.K the communist Member

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    I wish they had just shot him in the head and not sent him on holiday to Siberia over and over again.
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