What if Yoshimoto Imagawa defeated Nobunaga at Okehazama

The reason the Imagawa were even able to march to Kyoto was because they defeated the Hojo not destroyed them.

What? The Imagawa never became powerfull for the pure reason that Nobunaga killed Yoshimoto.

BEFORE THAT!! The whole reason why IMAGAWA marched towards Kyoto was because of the victory they won over the HOJO for control of KANTO.

Ok, okay. Any links for a source to your argument?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagawa_Yoshimoto Wikipedia for one, He married into the Hojo family and secured kanto and Kai because of the loyalty of his marriages, with the support of the Hojo and Takeda he marched on Kyoto.

It never stated once that he defeated the Hojo, his son Ujizane just married Ujitsuna's daughter to form a peace agreement.

They went into a marriage alliance but the Takeda being ambitious as they are didn't exactly support the Imagawa 100%. The Hojo agreed to the alliance in fear of a joint Takeda-Hojo attack. yoshimoto was also the best archer in the region (random bit of info) and Motoyasu (Ieyasu) also married into the Imagawa family. but i dont know if the takeda would be too absorbed against the Nagao (later known as Uesugi) to fight the Imagawa later on.

The Imagawa would have gained the Shogunate of course. They were already at the gates of Kyoto and there was little else between them and total victory.

Well for one Tokugawa would have never gained control of Japan. I also don't think Japan would have had an isolantionists period. This is some of my favorite history to learn about. Unfortunately, we don't learn Japanese history in grade school. I always liked Uesgui Kenshin. I don't think we would have seen a united Japan for quite some time if Imagawa had won. Probably the Oda would have revolted and the Hojo would have vassalized the Imagawa and eventually take Kyoto. I'm not to familiar with the Hojo except for Shogun 2.

Ah the duel between Kenshin Uesugi (Kagatora Nagao) and Shingen Takeda (Harunobu Takeda) Some of the greatest military tactians that developed a good amount of respect for each other. It is said Kenshin was eating with his retainers when he heard Shingen had died. Immediatley he ordered his retainers to pray with him for Shingen. A true sign of respect for his foe.

Very honurable man precisely why I like him as my favorite general of Feudal Japan. One of the greatest rivalries ever to exist between two clans/nations but to have mutual respect is amazing.

Hey don't forget about Nobunaga's military genius as well, he was as good as Kagetora (Kenshin) and Shingen.

Yes but he was a dishonurable coward (usage of guns). That was a joke

But off course, yet he had no battles where he was constantly in a deadlock with his opponent.
Unlike the Rivalry between Kenshin and Shingen. 4 battles of Kawajima (i dont know if thats how its spelled but its Kawa something) Actually there where more but they weren't worth mentioning.

Tokugawa philosophy is see

It was a joke but I think it is dishonurable to use matchlocks in Shogun 2.

Using dutch tactics on a japanese battlefield, Nobunaga is a Tactical genius.

Ermm...For the Japanese dishonour is dying in the battlefield from cowardice, but to kill even more samurai & ashigaru was very honorable. I don't see your point in here.
Either way, get Darthmod 3.2+ for Shogun 2, it's much more balanced. (You won't have machine guns anymore [aka Matchlock Sohei])

Btw, it's Kawanakajima. Also Nobunaga destroyed Shingen with his mass volley fire tactics at the Battle of Nagashino. Plus he couldn't have actual rivals like Kenshin and Shingen, since he was at war with almost all of Central Japan.

This thread has made me realize how little I know about Japan or Japan's history.

Learn my puppet, LEARN.