My argument is accepted by many universe v. universe debates. I have done nothing more than prove your ignorance of common canon rules. If you want to create for yourself a fantasy world in which canon rules go the way you want so that the battle plays out exactly as you want it to, be my guest. But don't expect others who know better to stand idly by as you trample on established canon in the real world. The fact of the matter is that the books ARE CANON and that they take precidence over the games, which are mired in a little thing called game mechanics. I repeat myself here, but take Halo for example. In the games, MC moves, as you say, at about a brisk jog at his fastest. In the books, he moves nearly faster [and in some cases, faster] than the human eye can process. Have you ANY IDEA how much work would have to go into creating a game with someone like that? What kind of brig would be needed to run that game? The game, even if the average consumer could run it, would be neigh on unplayable because the players would have to cope with the inevitable issue of having their character move on screen faster than they could process the image and react. Beyond that, the game, assuming that some player out there could cope with the incredible speed that MC moves and has a brig to run the game, would just be a curbstomp every time and not fun to play. Therefore, of course the game would have mechanics to make it fun, or just plain playable. That does not mean that the books are suddenly not canon. Quite the opposite as a matter of fact. The books establish the in-depth canon. Thank you for replying to the OP. While I have issue with the firepower part [see my post above on why his guns wouldn't be the most effective, nor possible] and the initial assumption, I agree with the rest of your assessment. As I stated a couple [considerably more than a couple] of posts back, I believe that Shepard would win this one. I even hinted at why he would in my fourth post [if I am not mistaken, it was that one]. The answer is biotecs. Essencially, biotechs, even with all its limitations, has the same basic idea as magic or the Force or Psycher abilities. It has no real limit. MC is powerful, but not invincible. The Halo universe, for all its wild side, is still roughly rooted in science and its limits. That is to say, the Halo universe has no equiviant to biotechs in its canon. Therefore, MC does not have any such powers and [under basic universe v. universe debate rules, we assume that the power is applicable to the situation] would be suceptable to them. Though we lack real numbers on the effects of biotecs and what they would be on MC, we can infer from what is known that, although the effects would be somewhat negated compared to the average opponent that Shepard faces, he would still win out against MC in the end so long as MC cannot close the gap. As Kali points out [and as I pointed out in my fourth post], there is a dependency on what class that Shepard is. While it is true [as an associate of mine pointed out today when we discussed it] that we would, under normal universe v. universe debating rules, have to use the default Shepard [who is a soldier class and therefore does not have the offensive biotec powers], overall, we can determine that the majority of the classes that Shepard can be would have the biotecs necessary to overwhelm MC with them. Therefore, in this case, given the evidence presented, we can conclude that Shepard would win most of the battles so long as he is not a soldier class. But don't get me started on the massive discrepency between one side with multiple classes and one with only one class...
Funny how the Mass Effect universe is more advanced that that of Halo despite Mass Effect being set in 2183 and Halo in 2552. UNSC weapons are barely more advanced than those of today. Imperial, how do the books treat that issue? I can't imagine it would change that much. What about other Spartan abilities such as jetpacks, cloaking and armour lock? Being a soldier limits Shepard a bit, but he isn't helpless. The following abilities in particular could be very helpful: Adrenaline Rush - Essentially slows down time and increases damage for a few seconds, might be useful in countering MC's vastly superior speed (I might as well accept this as you won't have it any other way) Disruptor Ammo - Especially effective against shields, and has a chance of disabling enemy weapons. No idea if the attached electronics suite on some UNSC weapons is susceptible to this. Incendiary Ammo - Causes fire damage, burns right through armour and stops health regeneration. Concussive Shot - A single, very high powered round that damages the target and stuns it for a few seconds.
LOL. You bring up a valid point. One that happens alot in sci-fi. Take Warhammer 40K for instance. In Warhammer 40K, they have interplanetary fighters capible of delivering cyclone torpedos that could crack a planet in mere minutes. But they look like this: Hardly furturistic, non? The fact of the matter is that almost the day that a sci-fi is made, the style that it endorses becomes almost immediately obsolete. As a poster on another universe v. universe site put it [refering to the SW universe] "A bunch of pseudo-religious monks flying between the stars in space in WWII-era styled space ships" or something akin to that. Also, remember that little in the ME universe is actually a result of the tech created by the actual ME races. The Reapers created the Mass Relays, which the Protheians copied, and the current crop copied the Protheians. The humans in Halo, dispite the presence of some Forrunner tech, actually created most of their own stuff from scratch. It wasn't actually until the discovery of Halo, where the first game picks up, that the humans encountered a large amount of Forrunner tech on a mass scale [mass scale meaning alot of people became aware of it]. Even then, it was not largly used until the end of the war and even then the UNSC and their Sangheili allies didn't use much Forrunner tech besides firing the Halo Arrays. In the case of ME v. UNSC, its actually a little debateable. The MAC [Magnetic Acceleration Cannon] and the guns of the ME universe actually operate in a very similar way. They propel a slug to the target by magnetic force. The difference is that ME guns are slower to load with lesser caliber and fired at closer ranges [though I have to check the range]. The guns of the UNSC are used at extreme range with shaped ammo [though I think that the ME ships use shaped shells too, its just their ground forces with the shard guns] and with a greater rate of fire [by what I can tell]. The guns of ME are without a doubt more advanced, but whether the guns of Halo are less effective for it is in question. As I pointed out earlier, the guns of ME must have some sort of threshold for caliber when they are fired, else the shots would either be one-hit-kills, or else they would have so much recoil that they would kill the user. And they also seem not to be able to adequately guage the effects of a target's sheilding, as they, again, fail to do one-shot-kills. With the set caliber of Halo guns, it is possible that the Halo weaponry equals [such as the assault rifle v. the ME assault rifle] would have similar effects or the former would be a little more powerful. Many people complained when the trailer for Halo 4 showed MC with a jetpack, as they claimed that he never had one. However, the truth is that he always had it. The jetpack, however, was only ever meant to be used in vacuum. That is to say, it was meant to be used in space, where there was no resistance from things like gravity, air, etc. From this, I think that it is reasonable to infer that the jetpack is not that powerful. It is hardly mentioned in the books. The grav-boots [which are really just magnets on the bottom of the MJOLNIR boots for connecting to station and not drifting off] are more used than the actual jet-pack. I don't know if the jet-packs, cloaking, or armour lock as seen in Halo Reach are actually considered canon. Halo Reach is... a little bit of a strech. Bungee was deliberately having fun with the universe and the canon is mixed with the non-canon. I think that the jet-packs are canon, but were rarely used [ran out of fuel, especially when transporting a Spartan], but I don't think that the others are considered canon so much as game mechanics. I know that the guns in the game are all canon though. The UNSC lost most of their advanced weaponry, from small arms to ships on Reach and it is canon that the Covenant hierarchy, the Prophets, decided not to use the small arms and ships that they used on Reach afterwards [which brings to mind Sun Tzu on rulers being military leaders]. Its a pretty flimsy excuse for why they weren't in the other games [the Covenant one, anyways], but it is canon. 1. I doubt that Adrenaline Rush will help much to outweigh MC's speed. And I am pretty sure that it speeds up the user, not slows down everything else. 2. Like you, I don't know how that will factor into Halo armor, but it should have SOME effect, though, as I said earlier, the loss of sheilds isn't that critical for MC [see my argument about the ammo of the ME universe against Titanium Grade-A]. In the books, dispite the fact that his sheilds are actually better than an Shangheili [Elite] sheild, it actually isn't all that great. But then, he was fighting plasma weaponry... The point being that he is used to losing his sheilds in a pitched battle. 3. Like the other, I am not sure how this will play out entirely. I personally don't think that the incendiary rounds could burn through Titanium Grade-A, which can somewhat witstand plasma [which is hotter than the surface of a sun] and the health regen thing is just a game mechanic. People don't have health regen. I mean, the ME might, on account of omni-gel [I lol'd when I found out playing the game that omni-gel is technically illegal by Council law], but Halo people are not so fortunate. The closest they have to omni-gel is just foam that is injected in wounds to stop the bleeding and stuff until they can find a doctor. MC's suit has an auto-inject system. 4. The effectiveness of the Concussive Shot is debatable. While I assume that it avoids the problem with the guns and recoil [see my argument about ME weaponry not being able to amount enough force without killing their user], there is still the problem that it doesn't likely mount enough force. In Halo 3 and in Fall of Reach, MC and other Spartans are shown to survive drops from orbit to the ground and not only survive, but also be up in mere minutes [less than 2-3 in Fall of Reach] and getting back into the fight. I doubt that the Concussive Shot has enough force to knock MC out. I believe that it might enable Shepard to through him around for a while until Shepard runs out of juice, but I doubt that it would kill MC.
1) Rooted in science? Not even roughly, it's more like rooted in "The Rule of Cool". Master Chief would have to be immune from the forces of friction (either he would catch on fire from friction with the air or his joints would have the world's worst case of arthritis or his suit would be destroyed, or all of those) and inertia (again suit falls apart, guy in the suit get his guts jammed through his pores at 25 g's) and even then how would he be able to see where he's going if the other people can't see him? Not scientific. 2) I care more about canon rules honestly, so I wouldn't quit your day job to take up mind reading if you really say otherwise. I really want to get this sorted out at some point, no matter how fun you are to piss off. It'd be nice to have some rules I could apply to everything to determine how canon it is. Other than that, your rules are just are just flimsier than mine since mine hold under more circumstances, unless I'm mistaken, that's how scientific theories usually work. The most accurate one is the one we use, it is to be promptly discarded when a new one is discovered to be more accurate. Neither of ours is all that accurate, so I give you the theory of Canonicity for Linear Timelines! (Is as follows.) 3) Canonically, the first released material in a series is to be the baseline. However, a new series/set of canon (separate to the previous one) can be created if there is a difference in time (significant one), medium, events, characters, or anything really significant like that. A sort of branching if you will. Example; the Batman Animated series from the early 90's in an entirely different series from the Christopher Nolan movies, despite them being about the same characters, place, and events. Or the Spiderman cartoon from the 60's and any of the other ones after that. This only applies to linear time lines, something like The Legend of Zelda can't be analyzed with the theory as it has a messy non-linear timeline. Are you satisfied with this conclusion? Yes or no. If no, fix it yourself.
Your persistance is not reasonable, just annoying. The fact of the matter is that books always take precident in canon, no matter what. And canon cannot be questioned unless it is declared non-canon. MC dropped from orbit to ground and survived the impact. Unless you are saying that both Halo 3 and The Fall of Reach as well as everything that followed MC's survival of the Fall of Reach was not canon [in which case, your argument would take on a whole new level of absurdity] then it is canon. It is neither of ours to demand how the canon works, only to follow it. Imagine, just for a moment, if you will, how much canon would actually be impossible if the rules of science were allowed to restrict the canon itself. Can you even manage that? Sci-fi itself would come apart. That you cannot comprehend, apparently, how the canon of the Halo universe is laid out is not my problem, and this discussion has no more purpose. The only other who agreed with your point of view has at least come to the conclusion that one has to agree to disagree in this and that the canon that I use will be the one used because it is the true canon. You are just prolonging a discussion that has no point. Where I have observed many debates on canon and universe v. universe and seen how the canon rules have formed and what rules they follow as well as what the Halo lore says to follow, you have seemingly decided to disregard everything that has been set as precident up to this point and instead, follow an absurd line of 'logic'. Why in the world would the writers put in the book that MC can move so quickly and call it canon if they have already been contradicted by the game? The answer is simple: the book takes precident over the game. Look at the Warhammer 40K universe. The DOW games put the SM movement at no more than the speed of the average human. But do you say that the myrid of books that say they are significantly faster are not canon? NO. You don't. Or at least, MOST PEOPLE don't. That is because they understand the canon. Look at the Tabletop Warhammer 40K. Are you going to set the SM speed according to how fast the players moved their pieces? NO. Look at the SC universe. The antimatter blades of the Protoss should cause explosions the size of star systems every time they are turned on since they come in contact with matter. But they don't. Even though antimatter would cause those explosions, they don't cause them. The fact is that there is a fine line where the canon is and where you are allowed to use the science and logic of the matter.
Now that is a misunderstanding. Let me clarify. The first point is saying that for a science fiction story, it's more fiction than science, and this statement no bearing on canon, at all (it was meant to be a bit of a joke, actually). The second point stated my intent, which was find a consistent rule to decode canon (similar to how a scientific theory works), as both of ours have exceptions. The third was my attempt at making said consistent rule, which will probably still piss you off since it isn't accepting your every word as a fact. My hopes were that you would accept it or build on it to make a more cohesive rule, maybe even spot the loophole that exists because a version wasn't specified. No where in there, did I ever say or imply that not scientific = non canonical. Am I being understood thoroughly?
Yes, actually all that makes sense. I apologize if I offended you. As it is, making a consistant canon rule is tricky at best. I try to follow what the canon makers state, but as universes expand, they are usually slow to explain the order. In Halo's case, with the slowdown of the universe [Halo 4 is bit of a joke since it is supposed to be a trilogy], it is a little bit easier to manage. The Fall of Reach tends to be the book that people take most of their canon from and is endorsed by the developers. The main thing is seperating what is game mechanics and what is canon.
