Immigration & emigration - what's your stance?

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by D3VIL, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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    Often one of the most hot button topics - immigration & emigration. Do you believe there should be limits? If so, in what proportion? What would you do to reduce immigration and emigration?

    The UK in my opinion has a problem with immigration and emigration. The amount of people coming to the country far outweighs those who leave.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jun/26/non-eu-immigration-uk-statistics
    Surely this isn't beneficial to a country which already has large unemployment?
  2. joske Well-Known Member

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    Mass migration (with the emphasis on mass) is a generally a negative phenomenon, that except in select cases should be stopped. The point is that most people think that you can stop it by closing your borders, which is a very skewed way of looking at it that totally ignores the point. Which is that these people dont migrate for shits and giggles, they migrate because (simply put) their own country is sufficiently fucked up compared to a select group of other countries. Solve this and you solve mass migration, just closing your borders is an action comparable to thinking it doesnt rain when you are standing under (a very unstable in this case) roof.
  3. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the long term goal is helping countries with large emigrant populations to increase their quality of life. What about short term though?
  4. 0bserver92 Grand King of Moderation

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    I think we should have a more open border even though we are starting to have a problem with illegal immigrants coming across the border.
  5. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    Mostly in favour of an open border policy with the developed countries providing a large amount of aid to third world countries.(see Joske's post) Even in times of crisis. I'm satisfied with the way my country handles the latter, but certainly not the former.
  6. joske Well-Known Member

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    This depends somwhat on the local conditions and the position a certain country occupies in migration patterns. But generally something you can observe is that alot of the problems associated with migration are caused by the illegalisation of the entire process, driving these types of migrants into marginality and poverty while further alienating them from the society they enter. Policy should focus on the dragging new migrants away from marginality and into strong communities that would provide a framework in which these migrants can adjust from the relatively traumatic experience that mass migration is. In practice this would mean the building up of strong communities of migrants of different generations inside the host country providing support for new arrivals, intensive language courses (not knowing the language of the host country allows migrants to be easily exploited as they are isolated from the rest of society), labour reform to eliminate exploitative the labour relations migrants often find themselves in and that would allow the elimination of unemployment which is a major problem in migrant communities...etc.
  7. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    all good if they follow our laws.
  8. Romulus211 Proconsul

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    Mass migration does hurt the economy, but that does not mean all immigration is bad, my stance on immigration is that everyone should have a chance to get into another country freely and easily, of course the standard security checks should still be implemented.
  9. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    Completely open (in the context of this conversation this means that barring a criminal background check you should be able to move to any country you want, as is mentioned in the UN declaration of Human Rights) borders.
  10. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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    I see a lot of support for open borders so let me pose a question. What would you do if your country had significant numbers unemployed and had a large surplus of immigrants, with overcrowding on the increase in an island nation? People already can't get jobs. There's a strain on the welfare system in having to provide for those who can't get jobs. And for those who do have jobs, a surplus of labour will bring down their wages.
  11. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    You do know that it's not just the UK that are having these problems. You're just the ones bitching about it constantly.
  12. Cover Well-Known Member

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    Why would immigrants come to a country where there is no work?
    That's just not logical.
  13. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    I live in Arizona hommie.... There are as many illegal immigrants in my state then in your entire country. As a country we deported 400,000 illegals last year, and have an 8.3% unemployment rate so I think we may qualify for your little scenario (minus the Island thing). I still hold by my position. Immigration rates and the number of immigrants living in the US has shrunk since the recession in 2008, indicating the immigrants respond to labor trends. They're not going to come here if there isn't a demand for their labor. They're not going to stay here if they can't get a job.

    I don't know how the UK works their welfare system, but in the US you're not eligible for unemployment or welfare benefits unless you're a US citizen. We can't deny them emergency medical treatment if they show up to a hospital, but that's about it.
  14. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    I've always found it funny how Americans can chose which people are allowed to live in a country when practically all of you were immigrants at some point.
    And this is a question, but is it not against human rights to dump 400,000 illegal immigrants on the border(I would assume Mexico) and just leave?
  15. Romulus211 Proconsul

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    They don't care, after there deported coming back is a FEDERAL offense.
  16. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Well I think we should make it easier to come here legally so we don't have as many people coming here illegally.
  17. TheKoreanPoet Well-Known Member

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    My stance on the issue is that you have to go through the legal process to get in. The problem with the citizenship test is that it's freaking hard for immigrants to take because they need to have prior knowledge of the country beforehand. I think that we need to lessen the requirements for the citizenship test so that more immigrants turn away from immigrating illegally.
  18. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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    Scandinavian countries have low populations. The UK as a much larger population. Are you saying that it's not a legitimate problem? That when a country's own citizens become more overcrowded, have their wages flatline and can't get jobs, it isn't a problem? Is it so wrong to ask for a neutral immigration/emigration rate? One in, one out?
  19. Romulus211 Proconsul

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    You should kill all the minorities there, that will solve the problem.
  20. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    In the context of the plethora of human rights violations we commit against immigrants, I'd say that's one of our better areas. The US doesn't usually just drop them off at the border. More often then not they'll bus them to a northern Mexican city. Mexico on the other hand, just dumps off their immigrants to the border

    The problem in the US is quotas, not the citizenship test. People are coming here illegally because were saying, only x amount of people can come here, not because they don't think they're able to pass a test.

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