New colonies and a war on drugs

As much as I agree with you on most of your points on this thread, I do not think legalizing marijuana will help much. You gotta think that if they legalize marijuana it will only be for those over the age of 18 or 21. That means young kids will more than likely still try to get it illegally either from a dealer who sells it cheaper, or from an adult who would be willing to buy it for them.

You mean like with alcohol and tobacco, both of which are legal?

Chelsea, what is your experience with marijuana? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but I was interested because you seem to feel very strongly on the issue. Also, you might want to go a little easier on General Mosh. He's 15, has had gratuitous exposure to the bad things drugs can do, and seems to have good intentions. You may disagree with his methods, but I tentatively and respectfully suggest that you might be a tiny bit melodramatic on the issue. You can disagree with that as well.

I'm unsure about the legalization of marijuana. Logically, it seems that the positives slightly outweigh the negatives, but I can't fully commit to one side because each side has serious disadvantages. After weighing everything up, I've concluded that it's probably the better thing to do, but that doesn't make it easy. We don't know how exactly it will affect society, and even if we were to implement it, judging if it was better than before is hardly a simple matter.

On the subject on your colonies idea General Mosh, while your aims may be noble, your methods are unfortunately completely unfeasible, as Imperial said. A fantasy. Would doing your idea be better for the world in the long run? Probably, but it has many shortcomings. It being immoral being the foremost one. It being economically unfeasible, another. It is also politically unfeasible. I'm sorry but we're not talking minor technicalities here. Those are pretty major problems. Why don't you just say "everyone magically has more money and is nice to one another" and have that as your plan.

Its pretty stupid that they literally had a marjuana week with all the documentaries on it as you can imagine. On one they were actually passing around some.

I do not personally use drugs, I also do not drink or smoke tobacco, personal choice there but I am well aware of what a lot of these things can do. Both my sister and father were alcoholics and hard drug addicts though, so it's not like I have not seen what harmful drugs and the like can do. Marijuana is something I will never do, yet I will defend because I feel it is harmless compared and wrong for it to be illegal. I do get worked up when I hear people suggest forced labor and executions for stuff like drugs, western powers colonizing everything again but most of all not valuing human life, it goes against a lot of what I believe so yeah I do come off strongly.

This is what happens when children are told that "drugs are bad" from an early age.

Oh well, more heroin and PCP for me.

Fucking casual. I inject a mixture of heroin, meth and speed straight into my jugular!

I don't even need speed, I always go fast.

I wish I could go fast all the time

I don't do drugs sir.

I'd like to bring up the huge problem of caffeine in this thread, it killed my dad, my brother, my sister, my mother, my dog, my cat, my hamster, my snake, my goat, my sheep, my cow and my spider. Yet, it is still incredibly overlooked. I know families in which the consumption of it has led to severe disturbances in their relationships. Caffeine is the number 1 cause of Domestic Abuse in the UK.

The effects of caffeine can be seen on the right here.

Yes.

You're argument on what you have seen in school is compeltley invalid, for i am in almost the exact same boat. I go to a public school, Vicksburg High School, a small hick town near Kalamazoo Michigan. Marijuana is used and sol daily, as well as alcohol and such. What do 12+ kids do around here? Drive around illegally, smoke, drink, etc. Last year a boy who popped pills killed himself. Another kid did the same. A year before that a girl burned to death in her car with her motor sitting on her lap. You see middle schoolers virtually selling themselves to eachother. And yet, in all of this, I, a 16 year old boy, am in favor of not only legalizing marijuana, but also lowering the drinking age. Why? Not because im a addict of any kind. but because it will save people to do so. As I already said, the only reason why marijuana is a 'gateway' drug is because it is illegal. Now you can only obtain it through a dealer. Who, most likely, has other, more deadly drugs that he will try and pressure or convince you into. But, if it is legalized, you could find it at a gas station where the worst thing there (again as said earlier) is high prices and fattening food. And this: "Not to mention, if you start weed at like 13, where are you gonna be at 18? Either dead from an overdose or shooting heroin. " is COMPLETELY false. Many, many, MANY high up people of today's society half smoked or drank and are fine and successful people. Also, you said yourself that its nor marijuana that is deadly, it is the way of consumption, smoking. But when i said there are other ways you said this: "Yes, I know. That should be illegal too. Except in the rare cases where the us of medical marijuana can help save somebody." So what harm can eating it do? And rare cases? There are actually a fair amount of cases where marijuana is helpful. And the comment about how we have no idea about whats going on in american teen society... bah! As a high schooler in a hick town full of wanna be gangsters and preps I have the up most knowledge. And i imagine our well-educated European and Canadian friends do as well. That's why, the intelligent dutch people allow for sale and consuption of marijuana. And with exponentially less crime and death rates than the US. I dont think this is a matter of us not understanding your ideas, but you not understanding how the world works.

Chelsea, I am a socialist, and you seem to think saying your communist means that your ideals will be automatically different than mine. In fact, I am very democratic and I believe that if you can save a person, you should. If you can give a person freedom without harming themselves or others, you should. But, I have always drawn the line at drugs. I believe alcohol should also be more heavily regulated. This is why I think what I do on drugs. They ruin lives, and simply legalizing them wouldn't work. As UnitRico and slydessertfox pointed out, alcohol and tobacco (both legal) are heavily misused in the US by minors. Also, I have an idea of how to take out the source of the drugs. You quite simply begin heavily attacking the cartels. It doesn't matter to the cartel if you seize a couple tons of marijuana coming towards the US. You have to take the marijuana out at the source.

Clayman, how is legalizing marijuana gonna help a bunch of 12 year olds? They are still going to have to get it from a dealer. And they will still get addicted to the hard stuff. Then, guess what? When they reach the legal age to buy marijuana, they will be addicted to much more potent pills and injections. So, the legalization of marijuana wont help them, will it? Legalizing Marijuana will solve the problem for two, MAYBE three generations. Then, it will be just like smoking. Something kids are doing against the law anyways and getting high off other more potent things. Then, guess what? People are going to start saying ok fine lets legalize LSD's! They don't harm you too much! And the cycle continues.

I remember Chelsea saying my idea was a slippery slope. Well, so is legalizing Marijuana.

Actually, I was defending the legality of marijuana. It kinda showed in the link I posted.

Chill out Mosh, come smoke some bowls with me and Toast. Every day man, every day.

But if it is legalized it wont be legalized for the teens that use it because it will most likely be legalized for only anyone over 18 or 21. This means you would still having those teens getting an adult to illegally buy it for them, or going to their dealer who will sell it cheaper. Either way, they would still be getting it illegally.

Guys read my edited post on this page. I went into more detail in why we shouldn't legalize Marijuana.

And Unit Rico, I meant when you said, "like tobacco and alcohol"

Tobacco is actually diminishing heavily in use by both teens and adults. Advertising is to thank for that. And thats why im in favor of lowering the drinking/smoking age limit. Many, MANY people use alcohol and cigs because it gives them a rebellious "adrenaline" rush for breaking the law, and, subconsciously, because they see adults or their fav. celebretys doing it, they feel like they should so they can be like them. Lowering the drinking and smoking age would remove that "badass" feeling from it, and most people would either use them less or not at all, as many maturing juniors and seniors in my high school are doing. My friends often turn down a night of drinking and getting high because they either 1) dont want to, or 2) have other commitments to attend to, such as a job, or sports practice in the morning. And your previous argument that such high penalties would make people not do drugs as much is only partly true. For you see, some people will get deterred... Other people will get pissed the fudge off and go on a drinking/smoking rampage, rioting across america at the dictator-like suppression.

Im in favor of lowering both smoking and drinking ages aswell.