What Nation do You Hate the Most?

2. I'm sure they'd like a democratic state were they actually have some say in what happens in their own country. They'd also like their Dali Lama back. I'm sure they can just keep doing what their doing now for money. Tourism and agriculture.

3. China has been changing at an extraordinary pace for 30 years now with no signs of stopping. Free market economics was just the first thing. The Chinese state is slowly letting go of it's power, little by little. Eventually it'll be like America 2.0. Even if the state doesn't let go then they people will make them. As they become richer and richer they demand more and more freedom. Even if the government cracks down it won't matter, it'll be hard to put down 1.3 billion pissed off people. Especially when the soldiers are inclined to agree.

And I am equally aware that the vast majority of them have yet to say anything. There are some 1.3-1.4 billion people in China. There are some 76-80 million CPC members. But there are only less than 1-2 million Democratic supporters spread out across no less than 8 different parties.

Dali Lama brought this upon himself. As a supporter of the people, who for the most part support the current government, I agree that his sentence was within the range of punishments. As a Chinese however, I feel that banishing him was a tad too... harsh. Being banished is no small matter in traditional Chinese culture and even resonates within the government and the Party. He will probably be let back in so he can die in his village. Good for PR.
Ahh... the dreams of a Chinese.

Tourism in a highly contested zone that is bordered by other highly contested zones? Enough for 2+ million people? I highly doubt that. Not to mention how the Chinese would retaliate. Even if the Chinese let Tibet go, there would a million and one things that they could do in retribution.
1) Preventing any craft from flying to Tibet from or over China.
2) Cutting trade [remember that the marjority of that agriculture is going to Chinese markets].
3) Not allowing passage of non-Chinese through China to Tibet.
4) 'Encouraging' Chinese 'settlement' of Tibet.
5) Complete withdrawal from the infrastructure of Tibet overnight.
6) Denying the 90%-of-current-Tibetan-government-funding that they currently provide.

Oh, and all of these things are things that the Chinese currently allow for Tibet. Except the aircraft part.
Remember also that Tibet is the border of China between China and India. Tibet would end up squashed between China and India as the giants lay claim to areas in and around the Himalayas.
Also remember that Pakistan is a Chinese associate and will probably refuse to trade with the newly-formed independent Tibet.
Russia would similarly refuse, to protect their interests in China.
India might trade, but they DO lay claim to parts of Western Tibet...

China has invested an enormous amount of time, energy, and resoruces in Tibet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Tibet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qingzang_Railway
They won't be letting go any time soon.

Above all, I would impress upon you not to forget that many of the Tibetans probably have mixed blood and relations in China. Seperating them would not be a good idea.

1) "Eventually, Devorak will figure out everything. Of course, eventually, is a very long time from now."
Basically, you are forwarding the timetable when it cannot work that way. The way that you put it, if China becomes Democratic long after the last bones from an American have bleached away in the sun, you would claim "I told you so." Nice blanket statement.
2) Show me the psychological research that proves that free market = Democratic thinking. I've only ever heard it from politicians out of the West and they have vested interests and bias.
3) The Chinese government is shifting its power, not wholly letting go. One thing in exchange for another. They are perfecting their craft and adapting to the new situations. Also, provide proof of these accusations.
4) Show me the proof that the soldiers agree with the idea of Democracy.
5) Show me the proof that the Chinese are going Democratic. There are 1.3-1.4 billion Chinese in China. There are 76-80 million CPC members and rapidly growing. There are less than 1-2 million Democratic supporters in China scattered across at least 8 different parties with varying degrees of discusting foreign influence. The numbers don't lie and the numbers are not telling me that the Chinese will be going Democratic any time soon.

It is true that if the Chinese people chose to rebel, that the Chinese government would best just give up.
It is also true that I would be there with them, fighting at their side.
But it is also true that the Chinese people are slow to rouse to such a movement. They prefer stability and comfort. The CPC provide those in enough quantities to satisfy the Chinese people.

I would also remind you that the 'Democracy' that China would have would be fundamentally different than that of the West, being a collectivist culture. So no, they will not be like the US.
Will they become a Democracy? Parhaps. In time. All in due time. But not for a long time methinks.

Summery:
Tibetan freedom? Highly unlikely, majority 'Tibetan' or not.
Democracy in China? Maybe, but not for a while, nor as the West has it. The current government will stay for a while longer. Chinese perception of time, of course.

Well I never said that Tibetan freedom was likely. Only that the Tibetans deserve it.

That's also basically what I said about Chinese Democracy. It's eventually going to happen but not for 30-50 years at least. I'd also agree that Chinese Democracy would be different in several fundamental ways when compared to American Democracy or any other kind of democracy. So I think we're just arguing about the details really.

Chinese Democracy probably won't happen, period. It's ingrained in Chinese culture, of Isolationism, and a strong man ruling.

And Tibetan freedom has almost a nil chance of succeeding.

Most countries had that same mentality for thousands of years but yet here we are. People are completely capably of change even if it is slow change.

Most countries had a mentality like that, but among the nobility, not among the general populace, at least, for any actual large measure of time.

Chinese Culture, on the other hand, encourages one, strong leader, and one, strong China.

Don't worry Chinese I'm on your side, just keep democracy out, hold on to Tibet and keep your population under control 'cause in twenty years or so you make the west look like Africa! Well ok maby not, but still.

(I'm also on the side of: Iran and [somewhat on the side of] North Korea)

Considering what China did was illegal to begin with, I doubt any other country would try to illegally annex parts of Tibet as well.

Well I'd say that European culture is and has always been a lot more individualistic than Chinese -> thus encouraging more decentralised rule.

And I'd also say that it is currently quite unsure whether China is going to become democrtic or not (I hope not).

Isolationism =/= strong man.
They are not necessarily the same thing.
Will they remain isolationist? Probably yes.
Will they become somewhat Democratic? Probably.

Taking Tibet was premature. The culture had not set in far enough to sway the majority over. It will eventually.

One cannot make a rule and expect everyone to abide by it when they have no say in it nor incentive to follow it.

I said Isolationism and a Strong Man Ruling are apart, i didn't mean that they were the same thing...

Edit: Imperial, If you like another of my posts, I'm going to throw a pie in your face.

The difference from 60 years ago and today is that if you do something today, everybody knows about it no matter what you do.

Not if China becomes the #1 superpower...

Maybe, but if the country is powerful it can just crush any and all civilian uprisings .

Also, I'd say that most people in Nazi Germany weren't that upset about their leadeship.

Last but not least: most of the Chinese people live in the countryside and they don't really care who rules them or how, as long as they can live their lives in peace.

Any country that adopts Islam as it's predominant religion. It's a savage and barbaric religion with no place in the civilized world. I would say blow them all back to the stone age but it seems they never left the stone age.

Ever heard of this thing called the Middle Ages?