So I am just gunna come out and say it.

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by JosefVStalin, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. crocve Well-Known Member

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    No, the term libertarian was first used by the Enlightenment thinkers who believed in free will. The first persons to use the term or William Belsham and William Godwin, being the first a classical liberal and the second was an anarchist (but a believer in free market).

    And they were real marxist states. their beloved prophet, Karl Marx, created the idea of party vanguardism
  2. ComradeLer Proud Anti-Patriot

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    No, he didn't. That was Lenin. Stop this 'I've read the communist manifesto' crap - it's obvious you haven't. Also, Communists believe in physically abolishing state, which makes you much more of a statist than us.
  3. Lenin Cat Well-Known Member

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    Willian Godwin believed in a market, but not a capitalist market.

    If they where "Marxist States" Then the power would be held directly by the proletariat class.
  4. JosefVStalin El Presidente

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  5. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    Eh. More of a usury-free barter market, not all that much different than markets as they we're in most Feudal societies where the Church had decreed things like interest "sinful".
  6. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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    How can an anarchist be both anti-authority and anti-hierarchy and yet pro-capitalism? Corporations are one of the best examples of autocratic, authoritarian, hierarchical structures we have.
  7. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    A gender equality post has become in a, umm, our usual discussion. That's so weird!
  8. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    To be fair, he said "free market" not "capitalist market". Which would still be wrong on his part since usury (rent, interest, ect) is seen by Anarchists as a violation of various collective and individual rights.
  9. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    Do you guys learn all this things at school, on Wikipedia, or reading each respective book (for example, Wealth of Nations)? In the case of the third one being the answer, where do you get the time or the will?
  10. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    I just put together various pieces of the puzzle I've picked up over the years, post my findings, wait for someone to present a counter that I can't conceivably refute, and then revise and edit to reflect what I've learned.
  11. Lenin Cat Well-Known Member

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    Mostly 3 but some 2 and some other.
  12. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    Mmm, I see. Although, ignore my comment, it's totally off topic; I may create a post about it later. I made an etnography about the forum back in highschool, feel honored (?
  13. JosefVStalin El Presidente

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    In his three volume, 1000s of pages work Das Kapital (which if you don't know is Marx's most powerful and still relevant critique of capitalism) Marx only spent 3 pages (depending on your version and translation of course) on what a Communist state would actually be.

    Marx wrote very little on what a Communist state would actually look like, he died before he could finish it. So this left a large whole for anyone to fill it with whatever they really wanted. So in reality there has never really been a Marxist state because a lot of what Marx said gets lost in translation, misunderstood, warped by other humans for selfish gains and so on.

    It's clear to anyone that has read even the smallest amount of Marx that you haven't read any and are really just talking out your ass.
    pedro3131 likes this.
  14. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    Women could rule until they had to go shopping for more shoes.
  15. LampRevolt Well-Known Member

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    If there wasn't gossip though they'd hardily speak.
  16. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    True, he spoke a little more about it in some of his speeches, suggesting that he believed it could occur peacefully in America or Britain, and that a communist society would "most likely" be democratic, but he was never very speicific.

    I'm studying political philosophy at grad school (whatever comes after university)
  17. GeneralofCarthage Well-Known Member

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    No actually you are wrong.
  18. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware of that (btw, are you doing a PhD?), my question was mainly for our "under 18" members.
  19. crocve Well-Known Member

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    Many people debunked the ideals of Marx (mainly the Austrian School).

    And yes he spoke of what a "communist" state would be like (you should have said marxian socialist state). It would be a period between capitalism and communism, where the "workers" state ( also known as "dictactorship of the proletariat") would own all property.

    Sorry, but that argument fails. The marxist-leninist socialist states (and all his variants) did what Marx and Engels wrote about the transitional period between capitalism and communism. After the Paris Commune, Marx started believing more that communists had to form a party to reach political power.

    As a normal human (like you or anyone else in this world), I talk from my mouth.

    I believe that a normal and at the same time, great argument to reject the ideals of Marx in order to reach it´s achievements, it stomps the greatest human right: FREEDOM.
  20. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    Everybody is always debunking the arguments of other, because always everybody is saying the "truth". In this kind of things, everything is subjective. I would quote Hugo, but I don't feel like searching the book.

    Nope.

    You talk thanks to your vocal folds, diafragm, lungs and air. You mouth just articulates.

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