Can Humans be trusted overall?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by StarsOverStalingrad, Mar 24, 2012.

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Can Humans be trusted overall?

Yes 10 vote(s) 35.7%
No 18 vote(s) 64.3%
  1. StarsOverStalingrad Member

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    This is a bit of a issue when it comes to politics at least in my mind. I've been thinking about this recently and about how most people who trust humans overall believe in democracy and that humans overall will know what's best of them. Whereas if humans believe humans can't overall be trusted then they are more pro dictatorships. I personally believe that humans overall can't be trusted .
  2. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    You live in the US, yes?
    Its called the 'credibilty gap' and though it has been around to some degree since the dawn of civilization [and probably before], the modern 'crediblity gap' is noted for having started during Johnson's Administration.

    One thing is that the US populous tends to project their own uncomfortability with their government onto all others, even if those people are perfectly content with their government.

    As for the actual OP:
    Humans are sentient and seek two things mostly: survival and reproduction. The perception of 'trustworthiness' is totally artificial. People will do what is in their best interests most of the time. Whether or not they can be 'trusted' largely falls on the person asking the question 'Do they share my interest?' than anything else.
    Simply put: if they person does what you like, you think them trustworthy. If they do not, you believe that they are untrustworthy.

    So the real question may be: Do you think that the majority of humans hold your same interests?

    I suppose that one could also input humanistic psychology here, but I think that I'll leave that to someone else.
  3. shlacka Member

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    Well, I trust mankind as a whole.
  4. LampRevolt Well-Known Member

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    That would depend on what you trust it to do.
  5. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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  6. 3man75 Well-Known Member

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    very sorry...stalin
    can you trust your mom or dad? brothers or sisters or cousings...or your teachers...people dying in god forskaen countries so you don't have to...the invention of electricity...your own damn computer....bla bla bla bla...So can you trust ANY thing human or human made?
    even one thing?
  7. StarsOverStalingrad Member

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    I can trust ideas.
  8. Unillogical Ex-Admin

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    One of the most important factors of my Philosophy is egoism, the idea that Humans ultimately work for their own benefit. This is not the bad thing people seem to think it is however, since modern societies, laws & 'ethics' are all born out of this.

    The question is then "what is this benefit they are working towards" & this is of course modal. Essentially you will tend towards those things which help you achieve your goals. Societies work because people realise the benefit of limiting other peoples ability to get in the way of you achieving your own personal goals, so essentially Social Contract Theory.

    So to answer your question: Humans can be consider trustworthy if being trustworthy is overall in their own interest. One key interest is emotion, for example one reason people may find being trustworthy central to their goals is the fear resulting from getting caught which will usually end up working against your goals, or the guilt involved in being found out. I would argue that being seen as trustworthy at the very least is always part of a humans goals (or an essential way to allow you to achieve your goals) & one of the most effective ways of generating the effect is being trustworthy. Of course people cheat & such because they think they can get away with it so the best way to ensure a trustworthy society is to ensure breaches of trust can be discover & publicised to the appropriate degree whilst obviously not breaking trust by hiring people to tail everyone or whatever, which itself would fall to the same issue.
  9. Skyicewolf City States Godmod Patrol

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    This question is easily answered.

    Get a human, Get a cupcake.

    Place the cupcake next to human. Tell human not to eat, while you are away.

    Come back with cupcake mysteriously gone.

    Logic'd.
  10. JosefVStalin El Presidente

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    Sorry I must interject. Last semester in one of my psychology classes we learned about an experiment what was pretty much exactly like this with three differences.

    1) It was a plate of chocolate chip cookies not cupcakes.
    2) The participants were asked not to eat anything for 12 hours before the experiment.
    3) The experimenters placed a bunch of radishes beside the cookies.

    The experimenters then said to the participants. "I am going to leave the room now and be back in 30 minutes, in that time you can have as many radishes as you want but you can't have any cookies." And the results showed that nearly all the participants would listen and not touch the cookies. So even though the participants were starved before hand and tortured by the contrast between the delicious cookies and the much less delicious radishes you could still trust the participants to not eat any of the cookies.

    Though I guess you could argue that this was a demand coming from an authority figure, but then again I don't think psychology grad students really very authoritative.
  11. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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    Does your egoism philosophy account for the idea of people giving to strangers to their personal detriment?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rFAdlU2ETjU#t=178s
  12. Unillogical Ex-Admin

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    Define their own detriment? I don't see how the experiment you link poses any problems, as I said, interests are not as bleak as just financial or social gain. So we have the molecule "Oxytosen" which causes or is party responsible for empathy & generosity. That's fine but as he said it can be impacted on by bad nurturing. Oxytosen is apparently released when you get into situations where you need to feel empathy or trust, it is released because your interacting with your girlfriend & is not the cause of said interaction. In the experiment they are acting out of a sense of duty, no doubt brought on by the way society works with deals. 'You scratch my back, I'll scratch mine' or just general societal deals such as when you are shopping. As soon as your in a situation where you simply cannot afford to give back, if you are in huge amounts of debt the chance of you returning any money I am willing to wager would be incredibly low.

    In any case, I wouldn't say the person in these experiments.

    This experiment I find harder to reconcile. This is a social experiment & thus I would eat the cookies because I have no reason not to, no one would be upset because it's simply a study.
  13. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    Honestly, I was halfway through this post before I realized that it was not a mirror of the marrshmellow experiment and had little to nothing to do with it. :)
  14. LampRevolt Well-Known Member

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    I'd just view it as a challenge and eat ALLLL the radishes!
  15. BleedingHeartCaptain Member

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    Was it possible they thought they would be punished for eating or possibly even shamed by others if they did so? Or even if they thought there might be a reward if they did follow the orders of the "authority" figure as many times it's shown when you're growing up. Listen to the adult or any quasi-authority figure and you get something for it. Also how did they know for certain no one ate anytthing?
  16. JosefVStalin El Presidente

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    They had the same number of cookies on each plate for each trial. After the experiment was over they would count the cookies on the plate. So if the before and after numbers equaled one another then that means no one ate any cookies.
  17. GeneralofCarthage Well-Known Member

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    Trust is given when trust is earned.
  18. LampRevolt Well-Known Member

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    yeah seriously guys this isn't a black and white question. At all. Generalizing this does it no justice.
  19. BleedingHeartCaptain Member

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    Oh I shouldve specified. I meant how were they sure that no on ate anything before going to the experiment? Also I was wondering if you would answer my question on whether or not the subjects of the test believed there would be reprecussions for their actions.

    Btw when are you doing more Shogun Total War 2: Fall of the Samurai Let's Play? I greatly enjoy your RTS and Grand Strategy Let's Plays. Mass Effect became boring to me.
  20. Unillogical Ex-Admin

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    Did the study account for the fact that the participants might really like radishes?

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