Revive the International.

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by Lenin Cat, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Technocracy is actually a viable idea. I might actually subscribe to it in the future, right about the time when we get the jetpacks, floating cars and robot housewives we were promised in the Cold War.
  2. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    We could make all those things... in a technocracy.
  3. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    Jetpacks are a bit of a problem right now. On the other hand, hovercars (kinda) and RealDolls are a go!
  4. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't the world end up looking exactly like the world of Futurama? Because that's exactly what it sounds like. Coming to think of it, Futurama is prophetic.
  5. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    Blah! Too many sentient machines for my tastes.
  6. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    No. In a technocracy everybody has equal access to everything and money becomes meaningless as the price system is replaced, while the economy in the world of Futurama doesn't have to make sense because it is an animated sitcom.
  7. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Too much equality for my taste. As well as the inevitable "robot rights" movement that is going to evolve in the next 20 years.
  8. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    Less to do with equality, more to do with efficient mass fabrication.
  9. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    I don't see the practical use for jetpacks. They always ended killing me in GTA.
  10. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    I just thought of a good way to explain technocracy to communists and anarchists and other red people.
    Where socialism aims to eliminate injustice and bring equality by eliminating the exploitative class and making everybody an equal worker, a technocracy would aim to eliminate the working class by replacing them with robots and allowing everybody to live exploiting the robots and doing whatever the fuck they wan't, essentially making everybody high class, as opposed to making everybody low or middle class.
  11. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    It is as idealistically utopian as communism then.
  12. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    Too late Shaw, I already called dibs on the "Expansion of Marx's Theory of Societal Evolution" argument.
  13. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    The working class is the odious, cancerous underbelly of civilization. While technocrats are just as starry-eyed as those damnable reds, at least they don't have a hard on for dirt farming and manual labor.
  14. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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  15. Lenin Cat Well-Known Member

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    If the technological non-scarcity is developed gragually out of capitalism, what you will have is not perfect equality, but rather massive amounts of working class people will become lumpen, they will have no property relations. The rich will enjoy there techno "utopia"(I hate using this term), while everyone else struggles. Inorder to have your ideal technocratic vision, we need to destroy the capitalist class.
  16. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    Well, in a technocracy you would see the abandonment of the entire price system, so yeah, say goodbye to capitalism. Wealth would be equalized.
  17. Lenin Cat Well-Known Member

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    98% of all labor could be automated right now. Why isnt it? Capitalism.
  18. Demondaze Xenos Scum

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    Baring the potential influences of biological (Or was it bio genetic? gerr) engineering, there is no such thing as "perfect equality". Practical equality on the other hand, is inevitable regardless of whatever system evolves into a technocracy.

    They'll be forced upwards, how dreadful...

    This is directly contradictory with your above statement. If the underclass losses its sense of class identity from such a shift, then it stands to reason that this applies to the overclass as well.
    The denominations of rich and poor are destroyed in a post scarcity situation.

    Quite the opposite, capitalism guided by objective purpose seems to be the only practical way of achieving technocracy. Reactive populism and mysticism simply won't do.

    This isn't an overnight process. There are cultural boundaries to be crossed, backwards nations to be straightened out, massive technological feats still to be undertaken, ect.
    And a that's only under ideal conditions...
  19. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    To be honest, I don't think a technocracy is an inevitability. It is simply the best case scenario. In the future, I see that most labor will become automated. There are three things that can happen from this, the first and most favorable is of course a technocracy, if people are willing to change and adapt. The second, worse case scenario is that we continue on with our current systems and millions of workers are left without jobs, and we have a socialist revolution, perhaps many worldwide. The third, most likely scenario is that the government and established powers protect their way of life while at the same time preventing a socialist revolution by simply outlawing the use of robotic labor and the ability to end scarcity.
    It seems almost unfortunate.
  20. Karakoran Well-Known Member

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    Good thing Capitalists never fracture, right?

    I mean there's only Social Conservatives, Conservatives, Radial Conservatives, Fascists, Social Liberals, Liberals, Radical Liberals, Modernists, Centralists, Paternal Autocrats, Libertarians, Greens, and a fucking million others.

    And I'd like you to stop acting like Marxism = 1984. Oceania bares no likeness to Communist Poland.

    Scientists can't run an economy or manage a war. They actually can't do much other than sit around thinking about shit. Why do you think we don't have all that nice stuff? If Scientists could do something beneficial, it's already enacted in our current system. Fuck, Scientists can't make up their minds half the time and flip flop on everything because they're never held accountable for what they say. They're worse than politicians.

    Technocracy has little to offer us and a lot of civil liberties to threaten. For instance, I doubt religion would be very welcome in a technocracy.

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