At what point was Nazi Germany doomed to defeat?

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by Sokol-1, Jan 20, 2012.

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At what point was Nazi Germany doomed to defeat?

From the very beginning (Fall, 1939) 1 vote(s) 1.9%
From the defeat in the Battle of Britain (Summer, 1940) 3 vote(s) 5.6%
From the beginning of the invasion of Russia (Summer, 1941) 12 vote(s) 22.2%
From the failure to capture Moscow/American Entry into the War (Winter, 1941) 19 vote(s) 35.2%
From the defeats at Stalingad and El Alamein (Fall, 1942) 10 vote(s) 18.5%
From the defeat in Tunisia (Spring, 1943) 0 vote(s) 0.0%
From the beginning of effective strategic bombing (1943) 1 vote(s) 1.9%
From the defeat at Kursk (Summer, 1943) 6 vote(s) 11.1%
From D-Day (Summer, 1944) 1 vote(s) 1.9%
From the defeat at the Battle of the Bulge (Winter, 1944) 1 vote(s) 1.9%
  1. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    The Italians wanted Greece to be apart of their Roman Empire, bt British ships had also refueled there, and Mussolini also wanted to show up Hitler.
    But had Barbarossa not been postponed, the Germans would not have had to deal with the Russian winter, and might not have lost at Moscow.
  2. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Would operation been launched at spring, battle of Moscow would take place during mud season, when German tanks & logistics are drowned in mud.
  3. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    And Soviet troops would also be in shit shape, and the Germans wouldn't have to fight in the winter and freeze to death. On another note, I am now wondering if any invasion of Russia has ever been successful, or are they like the UK of the east.
  4. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Ignorance of that comment gives me an headache. Would some one hand over Burana, please?
  5. Leutenant_Germany Active Member

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    How is that statement ignorant? the Germans steamrolled every other city before Moscow and those troops would be in the same condition as those in Moscow, the only thing that saved the USSR was the winter and Hitler's delays before and during Barbarossa
  6. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    If your horses are sunk in mud you cant move= cant do shit = have to wait to winter to do shit = winter comes = germans froze = russians win.

    Is it really that hard, people?
  7. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    I guess you could call the German invasion during the First World War successful. Also the Mongolians took great swaths of Russia coming from the east.
  8. Achtung Kommunisten! Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I mean that's where the whole 'stab in the back' thing the Nazis were so keen on came from. If only Brest-Litovsk stood. I mean there were German troops in Russia for a long while after the armistice, which is a bit strange for a defeated power.
    Anyway, it would be incredibly naive to think the UK hasn't been invaded since 1066. William of Orange took over (destroyed the Royal Navy in port or something), the Saxe-Coburg (now known as Windsor) family came in from Hannover (I think - still says something about how British they are), the Spanish tried and Napoleon and Hitler didn't.
  9. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    WW1 invasion was "success" because of outside factors (tsarist regime being overthrown and what not) Also Lenin was revolutionary defeatist and that contributed to it maybe the most.

    Mongolians took only the very southern parts of Rus and I'm saying Rus, because area was not a single nation.

    In other words, there was no successful invasions of Russia.
  10. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    @The Shaw The biggest reason axis attacked Greece was that they were afraid that British bombers would use Greek air fields and bomb Romanian oil fields.

    Actually when Italy declared war,they did for a while bomb them actually , only making Hitler more determined of fastening the pace of Greek invasion .
  11. Karakoran Well-Known Member

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    They lost because Japan was stupid enough to attack America early. They should've waited until the USSR and Britain were destroyed, then by the time America was willing to do something they would've already lost. Actually, if Japan had attacked Eastern Russia during Operation Barbarossa, the invasion would've been a success. Because the Russians knew Japan wasn't going to strike they were able to move all their forces from East to West and save Moscow.
  12. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    The Japanese attacked America because they assumed (either correctly or incorrectly) that when they attacked the Dutch and the British, that we would assist them, so they decided to pre-emptively strike us, unsuccessfuly. The biggest mistake on the Axis side came with Germany's declaration of war against America shortly thereafter.
  13. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    1. Germany did not have to declare war on US
    2. UK & USSR destroyed? Lol no.
    3. Invade Siberia and then what? Freeze to death? Or are you suggesting, that they would march to European Russia?
    4. If they would commit in invasion of Russia, they would not have resources to fight China, Australia & UK (among others) no longer.

    I really should dig up that argument I made back then against "Grand Japanese invasion of Siberia" way from the early days of these forums.

    Americans froze their oil supply, that's why they attacked.
  14. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    The Japanese already invaded Russia successfully before WWI, but i'm not saying they would succeed against the Red Army simply because they still had troops in Siberia during Barbarossa and indeed most of the Japanese force was in China and their Navy preparing for operations against the US.
    Also the "mud" season argument is unreasonable because the Germans only stopped at winter after the Siege of Leningrad and Moscow, that's past the "mud" season. And they only got pushed back because of the Soviet reinforcements from Siberia.
  15. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    We issued an embargoe on the supply of war materiels to Japan, including, most importantly, oil. Because of this, the Japanese needed a new sourceof oil. They found it in the Dutch East Indies, or modern day Indonesia. The Japanese knew that an attack on the Dutch would also mean war with Britain, effectively bringing themselves into WWII on the side of the Axis. They were also aware of America's support of the Allies, and feared that an American entry into the war was immenent, and that American forces would assist the Allies in the Pacific as well. So they included American territories in their December surprise attacks against the Allies.
  16. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Japanese did not invade Russia. They invaded & got Manchuria from Russia, which is modern day China -at cost of twice the men, may I add-. They did not even invade Russia -.-'' That argument alone should destroy all your credebility.

    Also mud season is perfectly reasonable argument, because it is based on true events. In fall Germans could not move, so they waited for winter and continued when ground was solid again. That is based on what really happened and there fore I consider you counter argument unreasonable, because you just made it up out of your ass.

    You put it so well, that I'm sceptical you wrote it. =D
  17. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    That's called a brainfart from me. =(

    No they didn't stop moving at fall, they stopped only on winter. Unless you're talking about the fall of 42.
  18. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    And I suppose you have something backing that up?
  19. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Wouldn't you agree then that the six weeks that Hitler had to postpone the invasion of Russia to help the Italians take over the Balkans was critical?
  20. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    Green part of the map shows the German advances through fall:

    [IMG]
    Shisno likes this.

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