Let Us Celebrate with a WORLD WAR!!!

Now... Lets just recall the First World War for now.

There was a plan. The plan... was the Schlieffen (sp) Plan. The plan was simple. Go through Belgium, allow the French to travel through Alsace-Loraine into Germany, and take Paris from behind the French army so the war can be focused against Russia.

Austria's only goal was to hold the front. Hold. The front.

Now, the plan is actually not a bad idea... if the plan had been followed to the smallest of details.

When crossing into France from Belgium, they had to keep the line strong, meaning from the coast to inland. The line for the Germans ended up being narrow, not covering the coast as they went in. Not so bad, but still a flaw.

However, the Germans gave no ground to the French army. They went in, faced some resistance, then were pushed back. Insert French joke here.

This, however, was enough to delay the German push through Belgium. This gave the French time.

The final nail in the coffin for the plan was Belgium. A neutral nation. A neutral nation with quite close relations with Great Britain.

When the First Battle of the Marne came about, the British Expeditionary Force pushed the Germans back and saved Paris.

Why am I mentioning all of this?

Its a turning point. One of the moments that Germany could of won if they just did one thing slightly different. Slightly.

They could have won again, at the Second Battle of the Marne. However, they were stopped by the Americans. That battle could have been won if Zimmerman's note wasn't intercepted by the British and Zimmerman claimed that he did. If he had simply said "No, the British are lying" then America would have believed it and stayed out of the war.

Because of this, Germany lost. True, France didn't lose any territory to Germany, but Germany sure as hell lost territory both in Europe and overseas, they lost their military, they lost their economy, they lost EVERYTHING. The entire war was blamed on them.

Woodrow Wilson suggested to just let things be, forgive and forget. But France and Britain imposed their policies upon Germany. And this enabled WWII.

Now, I am sure most of you here already know this (I just like to rant :3). Now, my question is this. What actions do you think the Central Powers during WWI could have done to win the war? What actions do you think the Allies could have done to have won the war sooner? What actions do you think the Axis could have done for WWII? And the Allies?

I welcome any who will answer one, a few, or all. As long as historically accurate information is provided supporting the beliefs.

I still think it was stupid for zimmermam to think he would find an ally in a fractured Mexico.

I agree with you. Despite my cultural background, Mexico would not be a good ally for the First World War, though if I remember correctly, it was only if the US began to intervene.

The Germans can fight wars and make it look sexy while doing it, but they sure as hell can't pick their allies for the lives of them.

You're grotesque.

KaiserReich almost happened.

Mexico never allied with Germany.
Learn your althistory.

Doesn't mean they didn't want to. L2 Zimmerman note.

Just because you look at something, it doesn't mean you want it.

Mexico didn't want an ally who was fighting and losing a great war half a world away.
They didn't want to stand alone, still crippled from their civil war, fighting the world's strong economic power, who produced ninety percent of all firearms in the Western Hemisphere.

The didn't want to fight a country five times their size with a population six times theirs.
Not to mention the absolute dominance of the US fleets on both of their coasts.

Remember what I said about isolation?
Imagine being an underdeveloped country who's besieged from every side by a great power.

They also had the knowledge of the American military's willingness to to occupy Veracruz after Pancho Villa had raided a U.S. town.

Let's not forget British hegemony in the Caribbean and Central American and the undoubted support from Canada.

As soon as Mexico attacked the U.S., they'd be fighting six of the world's eight great powers, while the remaining two are being squeezed to their literal death by four of them.

Who would rally to Mexico's side to fight an nation who's already announced themselves the only authority in the Americas.
Latin America would stand with the United States regardless, but especially so if Mexico was the aggressor.

Mexico was absolutely outmatched in every way you could ever imagine, no matter how you consider it.

The Zimmerman telegram was proof that Germany was a shell of what they looked to be.
They were asking a broken, underdeveloped, outdated, unequipped, second-class nation to save them from the French Republic and the British Empire.

Mexico didn't want the Zimmerman Note.

Well something modified from the original Schlieffen plan that most agree was what caused the failure was von Moltke the Younger's modification to not advance into Netherlands which caused a bottleneck of troops and supplies at the German and Belgian border, instead of a wider front to advance along by invading the Netherlands. Also, von Moltke made it so many troops were pulled off the army that was supposed to invade Belgium and Northern France and instead sent them to Alsace-Lorraine where Schlieffen originally wanted the forces there to retreat and put up defense while the forces in the North enveloped these advancing forces. von Moltke also put troops on the Russian border, and these troop deployments doomed the Germans on the German-Belgian border.

I actually read your post this time.

France knew they couldn't beat the Germans in Alsace-Lorraine.
Germany knew France couldn't beat them in Alsace-Lorraine.

This is why France built forts, not roads on the border.
Germany's plan was to sweep through Belgium and Luxemburg in a day, not eleven.

Why do you think their plan was to hold then front?
If you actually studied this period, you'd know that Austria-Hungary was the weakest of the great powers, maybe with the exception of Japan, but they weren't fighting Japan.
They were fighting The largest country in the history of the world, Russia, their ally, until about three weeks ago, Italy, and the nation with the best track history for war in Europe since the Roman Republic, the French Republic.

Austria-Hungary was rotting away from the inside out.
They did not have the means to wage an offensive war against any of their neighbors in any circumstance.

Remember what I said about the plan taking a single fucking day?
It took them almost two weeks.
Turns out the Belgians are some tough little shits.
And in reality, Belgium may actually have been what decided the fate of the entire earth all the way up to me posting this.
And while Belgium wasn't rolling over to get fucked by Germany, France had ten days more than Germany could afford to prepare for the invasion.
Germany still hit them hard, they hit them really hard.
But the plan was already ruined.
It called for them to surround the forts at the Franco-German border as they rushed to Paris to force a surrender.

Just like the Belgians.
The French don't like to get their shit wretched anymore than the next nation.

You back-tracked here.

They were perfectly aware of Belgium's relations with Britain.
The plan regarded it as a non-issue.
If they had taken Paris as planned, the war in the West would have been over instantly and they could focus on the Russian Front, regardless of Britain.

You're really starting to jump around now and this tidbit is redundant.

I can only assume it's because your cunt is inflamed.

An outcome is irrelevant to your action.
It depends entirely on your opponent's reaction.
Look how Belgium reacted, not how Germany acted.

Wilson was going to fight Germany directly, regardless of his promises.
If it wasn't a threat that drove him to war, it would have been the next sunken ship.

It's not so much that the Americans were intervening, it's the fact that Kerensky surrendered on behalf of Russia.
France and Britain were winning in the West.
Russia was losing in the East.
When they dropped out of the war, it freed up over a million battle-hardened men who had four years of combat experience.
It literally became a race between the United States and Germany reach the Western Front. Guess who won that race.

Don't feed me that bullshit.
Gavrillo Princip didn't cause the deaths of twenty million people, Germany did.
Cascading alliances?
Try cascading agendas.
Germany wanted this war.
They wanted it for 40 years.
Franz Ferdinand's blood was nothing more than the seal on the declaration of war against the Entente.

What kind of idiot wouldn't have.
I'd assume only you and Wilson.
Germany literally set the world on fire and it burned for four of the bloodiest years in human history.
Twenty million people were dead.
More were still dieing from a civil war and starvation in Russia.
A quarter of the French nation was ash.
Belgium, a world class state had been raped and occupied from the start of the war.
Four empires ceased to exist with-in a year of one another.
What the fuck would stop the German Empire from trying to stake their Place in the Sun ten years down the line?
Nothing.
If they didn't try to prevent it, it would have happened, no matter what you think.
But once again, it's regardless.
Communists were in control in Russia.
Fascists led Italy.
Japan suddenly had this idea to stake their Place in the Sun.
The United States, who just shot up the ranks to number two in the list of world nations, just succeeded from the world in favor of isolationism.
What the fuck do you think would happen, regardless of Poland and regardless of the Entente attitude toward the German state?
Do you think the world would just stop?
That the war that redefined what a war was would convince people they shouldn't get more practice in?

Clearly, you do.

You just ranted about a topic that could go on for a hundred pages before drying up and now you're proposing we extend it to what could easily the entire career of a historian?

So you're asking us to tell you that you're smart and shouldn't question what you remember from your Junior year of high school.
Fuck you.

@Chives
I decided hitting the reply button to your post would be retarded considering how long your reply is. But anyway. Yeah, here is what I say to your post.

Which is exactly why France didn't invade Alsace-Lorraine. Oh wait, they did. And it failed, just like Schlieffen had planned. France's own plan (Plan XVII) stated an offensive into Alsace-Lorraine. Which ended up failing.

They built no forts. They simply put their armies along the border. Prepared it for inevitable war.

France was crap at war-making. And Austria's plan wasn't to ever hold the front. They started the war by invading Serbia. And they invaded Italy. And Germany saved their asses from Russia. But yes, they had as crappy a military as Italy.

Agreed.

There plan was for the German army to steam roll through Belgium and reach Paris before the French could effectively mobilize, and then envelop the French forces in Alsace-Lorraine. The problem was Belgian forces held out. Longer than the Germans expected. Which as you said, gave the French time to mobilize.

Actually, it was the average American opinion after the Zimmerman telegram that swayed heavily in favor of war on Germany. That was all Wilson was waiting for. He was a pacifist at heart. He wouldn't declare war unless the populace was determined to go to war.

I wouldn't say that France and Britain were winning in the trenches, as the French were being bled white, but rather they were winning the battle at sea, blockading Austria, Germany and the Ottomans, as well as winning the war in the Middle East.

I think what he meant by that is that Austria caused the war. And Russia then declared war on Austria, and then Germany declared war on Serbia and Russia, followed by a declaration of war by France on Germany and Austria. It was Austria that caused the war though, that is what is important.

In comparison though, Austria and the Ottomans got off easy.

Since the death of Charlemagne, the French Nation has gone to war about 200 times.
That averages out to a war every five years.
They won't about 180 of those wars.

Americans were growing more and more in favor of intervention in the war since the Lusitania was sunk.

France may have been bleeding white, but that doesn't change the fact that Germany lost in Africa, they lost in the Pacific, and the Ottomans were losing in Arabia.
Germany was turning grey and saggy, if France was white.

Germany was pulled the weight of all of their allies.
France, Britain, Germany, Italy, Russia?
They all led their own fights and it was pushing Germany to the breaking point.
If the war didn't end it Russia, France and Britain would have eventually been chasing them to the Urals.

Recall what I said about cascading agendas.
Austria wanted Serbia.
Germany wanted Russia.

If there was no Germany, then the Austro-Hungarian-Russian War of 1914 would be no more important to you than the 3rd Balkan War.

You call this 'getting off easy'?

Is this a slap on the wrist for attacking Serbia?

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

But the Zimmerman telegram was the tipping point.

Germany had barely any forces in Africa and the Pacific compared to Europe. And I said the Ottomans were in the shitter.

No argument Germany did most of the fighting for its allies, but as I said, the Entente would have won due to blockade and winning battles in the Middle East/Ottoman Empire.

Germany did not want Russia, yet.

Actually, France was the won to declare war on Germany and thus caused the German invasion of Belgium. It is all France's fault. Germany was simply supporting its ally Austria.

Compared to Germany, yes.[/quote]

Oh buddy you dun messed up. Remember my former name? Yeah...

Bonaparte was a Corsican, not a Frenchman. And he ended up losing anyway.

What are you smoking? He fought for France. It was the French Empire, not the Corsican Empire. His nationality doesn't change that he led France.

Yes. he led France, but he was a foreigner still. Frenchmen leading a French army never end up well. And like I said, he still ended up losing.

We can talk more in the morning.

It is morning.
And have you ever heard about that guy I mentioned, Charlemagne?
What about Charles Du Gaulle?

It is morning. Its 5:30 am. Second they were the Napoleonic Wars. There were about 7 wars in total. Guess how many Napoleon won?

Edit: & Chives is right. They are also prestigious French Commanders.

I won't deny Charlemagne, but de Gaulle is iffy. He really ended up leading nothing in WW2, all the credit belongs to the British and Americans. And those are only 2 generals. It is 3:34 AM here. And Nappy is still a Corsican, who used foreign troops as well as French troops.