can America be called an empire

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by mattbenz99, May 27, 2012.

  1. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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  2. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Neither did Rome.
    So did Rome.
    We are the most powerful country in the world and almost everything we do effects everyone else. We have more than a little influence.
    We may no longer be an empire. But in the late 1800's and early 1900's we were an empire for sure. We took almost an entire continent, took almost all of Spain's island holdings, took much of former Mexico's claims and actual holdings (modern day Texas, New Mexico, California, Arizona). We nearly got in a war with Germany in which case we would have expanded our holdings even more, and the list goes on and on. Yes, we were once an empire, but not anymore.
  3. Einsam-Basher New Member

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    I agree with what you are talking about Rome. Rome never "colonized", their only expand their borders, just as U.S. in all the time they have as a country.
    About the influence, i also agree, all the countrys in the world are infuence by their culture, ideas, fashion, architecture, economy, for all the think that come from this country, that's more than enough to be considered a superpower in the world. In my country for example, takes very consideration what happens in U.S. presidential elections, crises, wars, including Hollywood. in our history the U.S. word appears countless times, not because we like U.S., not because we get along with the country (including known around here as they supported the many coups that would occur in the decade of 70) they appear in our history because their words are law in the world, if they say that a country is an enemy, everyone (or at least his powerful allies) placed next to him and wipe out the "threat". If we are not going his way, we run the risk of being crushed. If that is not a "Imperial" way of doing things, i dont know what it is.
    Another very important thing, is how that power was obtained. Throughout its history is engaged in countless wars, some justified and others were but excuses and lies, these have been his own words, nothing that your not said before. Each victory brought glory and incredible prosperity to your nation, just to name a few: WWI, WWII, the Cold War, each of these mean large amounts of money spent (not counting the lives of course) but also mean big profits in the long term. Because of this the war has become your business, through this, U.S. impose their way of life, culture and economic model (do not get me started on economy because it gives me for long) that is not applicable to all states of the world, and especially U.S. imposed is word over the word of the people who inhabit those lands. That is the way of act of one big Impire.
    U.S. live in an ideological dream, proclaiming peace and freedom of the world through war (ironic, no?), Without even knowing that the "Freedom" is just an illusion, there is no real freedom, there is no real freedom, there are always consequences of the acts we commit, real freedom would be one in which we could do what we wanted, without fear of anything, but the law exists and if one exist the other dont, even believe live in a democracy when there are more far from reality, democracy is that government in which the people (demos) expresses its sovereignty directly, so it was formulated by the Greeks (Athens to be more specific) for more than two millennia ago. The current system that prevails in U.S. prevails in all the pseudodemocratic countries has been modified to be representative in that those who have the authority to govern, these are really few, so is an aristocracy, but always eventually end up being the same, large families, rich people, businessmen (the case of my country), provided the same groups are repeated, people generated in comfort and even appreciation for what they use these cleverly to stay in power, is or a plutocracy or oligocracy. without taking into consideration that give power to the hands of Demos, the people, which by logic should be a democracy, but in truth the people does not exercise any power, they are dragged into wars they do not want to participate, they are subject with violence and forced to blindly follow the many wrong decisions, even if they eh exercise their power would be the center of bad decisions, since the mass is not very bright with regard to politics and economics, would be only ochlocracy. Thus we can say that U.S. has no other way to return power to the aristocrats to manage it as best as possible, they are the "emperors", the dynasties and families are (an example is course in history, the Habsburgs of Austria) besides, you never said that it is necessarily required for the existence of an Emperor in the empire, only requires allegiance of the people, many people (it is said that U.S. is a nation of many villages from immigrants) and the centralized imposition on these, clearly presented in U.S.
    Finally, I must say, I am dedicated to the history, study and teach history in schools. History has taught that only requires three things to be considered a nation as an empire:
    A. - Subjugation of many peoples of different languages ​​to a particular culture.
    B. - Extend the power of this nation through Weapons, War
    C. - A great economic system which is imposed on people who are outside and within the nation, with the sole purpose of satisfying their needs.
    all these are present in the U.S., does not require an Emperor, or colonies, or anything. Also, history has shown us that every empire falls one day, like every nation, some do not last more than fifty years (as the Empire of Germany at the end of WWI) others take thousands of years, but they have to fall, have to fall and when only one thing can happen, and something that has been in every fall in recorded history, a great war by countries or nations or peoples who survived him to fill the void stay, will not be different in this case either.
    I apologize for two things, one is that I went over everything, but I hope it has explain my point about the subject and the second would be an apology in relation to consistency and spelling, you will see, my mother language is Spanish and not the English, and in fact I'm from Latin America, so ask them to be considered.
  4. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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  5. StephenColbert27 Active Member

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    Nice move.
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  6. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    Yes they did. Rome had tons of colonies.
    Wrong.
    Oh look, a completely unique comparison being made between the Roman Empire and the US. Man, never seen one of these before.
    Being a superpower does not make you an empire. Having an imperial form of government makes you an empire.
    As is expected of the global hegemon. Again, the hegemon is not necessarily an empire. It usually is, but has not always been and is not now.
    Typically, you have an emperor in charge of a bunch of territory. Sometimes it's an empress.
    Right, because wars are the most important things that affect the prosperity of a nation.
    That's plainly nonsensical and is nothing more than anti-American demagoguery and slander.
    That is not imperial, that is hegemonic. Exerting influence on a geopolitical scale is the calling card and primary advantage of the global hegemon.
    That's not ironic.
    Oh good, I'm sure your incredibly informed opinion about American knowledge will put to rest any concerns I had about the rest of your ramblings.
    Never mind.
    Twice?
    Freedom is a value on one side of a dichotomy, but the dichotomy isn't purely binary. It's not a case of "either you can do whatever you want without consequence or you're in a tyranny," and that kind of thinking is really childish.
    Yes.
    No. Or, at least, not necessarily. Democracies can be republican, direct, or representative. We are the latter.
    Direct democracy is not the only form of democracy. It's also the least practical and most susceptible to abuse.
    No, and on that point, aristocracies went out of style centuries ago. The nobility lost all its swag when capitalism kicked in feudalism's face.
    That's not aristocracy. Also not oligarchy. It's just hindsight and applied classism.
    Well at least you found the right words to use incorrectly.
    That's wrong. The people are the ones who vote Congressmen into power, and have the capacity to submit or approve legislation; courtesy the 'representative' part of representative democracy.
    So first you complain that the US isn't a direct democracy, and now you're whining about how if we applied direct democracy we'd end up with the tyranny of the majority?
    The US has absolutely no native nobility. Aristocracy is an impossibility in this country.
    No. No one who has ever held office in any position at any point in US history has held an imperial title.
    That's a wildly inaccurate description of empire. It's also highly nonsensical.
    Well, whoever taught you taught you wrong.
    It does, which is why we call it an empire at all. You're just trying to use a word with negative connotation to describe a country you don't like. As I said previously, being the global hegemon does not mean that you're an empire.
  7. StephenColbert27 Active Member

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    Ah, a refreshing breeze. At last someone to put down the idiotic idea that America is currently an Empire.
  8. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    @Kali
    Thank you. I was planning on doing the same thing as you did, but then remembered you do this the best.
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  9. UtterlyImpeccable Well-Known Member

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    @Einsam-Basher says some very important things, and raises some interesting points.

    While I do not think America is quite an Empire in the same way the British and Roman Empires were, I cannot help but to see some similarities in the way they influence countries around the world.
    The biggest difference, of course, is that America has not occupied many countries, as was the case in the Empires of the past, but I think in todays world, a large country does not need to directly occupy another for it's influence to be felt and to affect the lives of the citizens of the smaller country almost as much as if the smaller country had actually been occupied.
    The way that America imposes its culture on the world has stark similarities to how the Romans 'Romanised' Britain, or how the British Empire put in place it's own systems in places like Canada. Again obviously not as directly, but the inflence is felt all the same.
    You could argue that this influence over so much of the world does not amount to an empire, but due to how much of the world has been 'Americanised', for good or for bad, I cannot help but think this amounts to the modern day version of an Empire.
  10. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

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    But it never was and still isn't an empire. The same can still be said of the EU, China, Russia, or India.
  11. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Well, I'd like to point out what I've been saying thw whole time is this:
    As for Rome had colonies, they were colonies about as much as the Phillipines, Cuba, Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico. So the point still stands. We used to be an empire, but not anymore. I don't think there is any room for an empire in today's world.
  12. UtterlyImpeccable Well-Known Member

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    Not really, they simply don't have the same level of influence.
    And I can understand you not thinking America is an Empire, I'm saying it is the modern day equivalent of one.
  13. Melanthropist Well-Known Member

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    Good job.
  14. StephenColbert27 Active Member

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    I don't know what you're talking about :p
  15. RickPerryLover strawberries oh sweet Jesus strawberries

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    Anyone who calls America an empire needs to turn the radio down, put out their dope, throw away there J-14's & edgy Commie Paraphernalia & get back to class before the bell rings.
  16. EmperorVasari Member

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    America is VERY Imperialistic but America is not a Autocracy so no, it isn't

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