Assange looks for asylum in Ecuador

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by General Mosh, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    The Taliban was not formed by mujahadeen fighters, it was formed by a group of islamic students, led by one mujahadeen fighter.
  2. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    Of course they're subject to whatever you want to make them subject to, but it just doesn't mean jack shit. Morality has no place in geopolitics, and we should not expect it to. It's in the best interests of pretty much every sovereign government on the planet that Assange be put away and his organization shut down. Certainly it's that way for the US. Allowing a rogue force like him or his nameless contributors to leak national secrets at will is incredibly dangerous and has no benefit. Whether or not you think he's "doing the right thing" does not absolve him of this fact, and it definitely won't and shouldn't grant him protection from the states that he's wronged.
  3. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    And they brought along American weapons that we gave them. You can't deny this, its well known fact.
  4. Mobmaster Is Ozan

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    Okey i give up, too many americans don't know as much about their gov. As the rest of the world. Xenophobic fucks xD
  5. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Ah no because America never funded nor supplied weapons to Islamic students, Pakistan holds that honor.

    I except your surrender.
  6. Mobmaster Is Ozan

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    Good lcuk with your moronc crusade
  7. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Wow you really don't like when people disagree with you.
  8. trots 20-20 Member

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    Well my opinion is that all the shit he put out about how governmnets fucked up peoples lives is totally justified but putting out stuff that could hurt people isn't really alright. But again he didn't do anything wring he would be an awful reporter if he didnt release the information. I think he couldve kept the stuff that could hurt people out of the releases though, and i aslo agree with kali about geopolitics not being morale. I think the main point is thatgovernments will be slimy and dirty no matter what but I do think we need whistle blowers so governments dont get to awful.

    “Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.” Thomas Paine
  9. Mobmaster Is Ozan

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    No i've come to the conclusion that every discussion on this forums is idd, a moronic crusade. Therefore i am also a moronic crusader.
  10. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    Moronic Crusaders II: Sword of Stupidity
  11. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Look if your really going to deny that both the Taliban and Al Qaeda have US weapons from the Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan and also have weapons from more recently then there is no point in having this conversation.
  12. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    No I was not denying that they used weapons we gave them in the 80's(although when it comes to the taliban alot more of the weapons they use came from pakistan, then the US). I was saying that most of the founding members were in fact not mujahadeen fighters, and therefore the US was not responsible for training them or really had any hand in forming them besides leaving behind alot ak's in the 80's.
  13. trots 20-20 Member

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    and Ronald Reagen commemorated space launch Columbia to the freedom fighters of Afghanistan

  14. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Our "advisors" trained fighters, who went on to Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
  15. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Al Qaeda sure. The Taliban only had one mujahadeen fighter leading a bunch of young islamic students in the early 90's to form the Taliban. So we trained one guy, not the whole organization.
  16. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    More joined up. The Taliban is massive. It may not have been formed by them, but they certainly make up a lot of the higher positions and fighting core.
  17. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Well they're not that massive anymore. Thanks to the war, many of the old fighters have died off, but yea I'll give you that(but still the original point was that it was formed by fighters trained by us, which is wrong) . After they were formed I'm sure alot of mujahadeen joined up, but, then you also have to consider that the United Front(the main resitance to the Taliban) also had alot of mujahadeen fighters.

    So I don't understand why this is always brought up when people be hatin on america. We trained and supplied resistance fighters to combat the Soviets. Later on some of them turned out to be extremists(again not all), who hated all things not muslim, and turned around a fought against us(in Al Quaeda's case). This is suppose to be some big blunder that shows how dumb America is, but honestly any other country wouldn't have done any better if they were in our shoes.
  18. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Well that wasn't my point. I was just making sure your realized that yes a large number of our weapons and mujaheddin troops joined the Taliban and Al Qaeda, which you have concurred with it.
    I agree. Just pointing it out. It shouldn't be used to bash us over the head with, we've done plenty of worse things.
    Spartacus likes this.
  19. Frenzy Member

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    I think you a re-iterating the pretense of my question here - that subjecting the US to any code of morality is meaningless because they maintain power and global hegemony- hence they are not subject to any kind of morality (except of course real morality - which is the morality dictated by power).

    This is a very interesting point, but for it to hold valid, I think you need to apply the same principle of 'real morality' (that is right/wrong dictated by those in power) in a geopolitical context to Wikileaks itself. The very notion that Wikileaks has the power to threaten the geopolitical status quo indicates that this organization isn't subject to our drawn out notions morality either - In other words, it doesn't matter whether or not you think Wikileaks' actions are of a benefit or whether you think he's doing the wrong thing - such concepts are essentially meaningless, the same way someone who thinks that the methods the US is using to detain him may be immoral.

    Wikileaks clearly functions in the domain of a geopolitical context - and either you are arguing that it does not have the power to influence geopolitical affairs and thus deserves whatever is coming its way, or you are arguing that it does have the power, and that every sovereign government that withholds a secret deserves whatever is coming their way.
  20. Mobmaster Is Ozan

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    So your saying that if someone has the power to kill someone, it's okay because he has the power to be above morality?

    Because that's what you're saying governments can do, just because they have the power to ignore it, they can.

    And i don't think you understand where morality comes into perspective. It's morality wich should (partly) decide for you as a person (everyone has their own moral values) if you support or protest, or don't care about certain issues.

    It is based on my moral views, that Assange has done nothing wrong, and therefore I am of the opinion that he shouldn't be persecuted, and therefore I believe it is wrong that he is, I would try to do something about it, but frankly I don't care too much and it would be futile to strive for such a goal at this time.

    But thus to answer the original question, I think it is good if he gets asylum, based on my own moral compass

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