Why Charity Should Be Abolished

It's the best and only way to 'win' debates..

I'm not going to respond in bullet point quote form just because it's a shitty way to debate that inevitably ends up with people arguing about random tangents that were only relevant 3 posts ago (Unless it's just Kara being a dumbass or something in which case nitpicking every stupid idea is the best thing ever).

What I'm not really saying is that we have some obligation or responsibility to help Africa. What I am saying though is that we have every reason to help them anyway, both because Africa actually developing beyond its present shitty state would give fantastic benefits to Africans AND western consumers, and because, well, Europe fucked them up in the first place, so if anyone ought to be helping out the most, it might as well be us. I know you don't put much stock in fairness, but if we don't have to live with the mistakes made by our ancestors, why should they? That seems like a double standard. I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right here, because that'd be largely impossible I'm sure. It's just my opinion. Also I used Germany as an example not because it was rebuilt out of kindness (although don't for a minute pretend that there wasn't some genuine guilt for the damage the war had caused - just look at the treatment of British bomber command veterans post-war for more info on that particular can of worms), but simply because it's an example of that "to the victor goes the spoils" mentality not having been the case at all. Especially when you consider that most of the victors actually took longer to recover than the losers.

Complete and utter capitulation.

Anyways, the notion that I ,or anyone else for that matter, are guilty of anything due to affiliation via common genetic heritage and therefor obligated to provide reparations to the ancestors of long dead victims is utterly nonsensical.

And even if that weren't the case, my dirt poor Irish/Dutch /French ancestors didn't do shit to nobody. So fuck the lot of you and your White Man's Burden bullshit.

Melodrama, much?

All the time. It's my reason for posting in this section.

@Jingles
@Jack118
Just stop. You will not get through to Kali. He has no concept of morality because he believes it simply does not exist. Apparently he can't fathom the fact that, god forbid, we want to help our fellow human beings. Luckily, people like Kali are a dying breed and few and far between. Thank god.

You're good until here, though I don't see what charity has got to do with it.

This is just clearly irrational. You aren't Europe, nor are you somehow responsible for what the people who lived there a hundred or two hundred years ago did. Even if you're descended from them, you do not have, and should not feel, guilt about their actions.

If you want to help, don't do it out of a false sense of obligation, or the disgustingly ethnocentric "guilt" or "fairness" you talk about here. It's not just unacceptable as argument, it's also offensive, both to myself as an intelligent person who has to listen to that barely masked racism, and to the people you have never met or harmed that you feel guilty towards because of your and their racial lineage.

Oh Kali and your ethical egoism.

But I thought that helping Germany and Japan helped both those countries phenomenally.

Also I should not feel guilty about the actions or lack of actions of my ancestors, they where my ancestors not me.

*were

I'm pretty sure there should be a comma after also.

Thanks for the correction, notes will be made.

Personally, I find the whole subject of the Empire an incredibly embarrassing episode in Britain's history, and I know for a fact that many Britons feel the same way, and while, sure, we don't *have* to go around trying to correct the mistakes of our forefathers, I don't think you have the right to tell us we shouldn't, either. All this dancing around the subject, arguing whether or not we should feel guilty for this or that historical event is ultimately irrelevant anyway, because it solves nothing.

That's just pretentious as fuck. Whatever, Kali. Clearly I am a racist because you say so.

I think it's far more important and relevant to talk about how charity can be changed to help people more effectively, because clearly some of the current methods aren't working.

It would be better if there weren't quite so many different charities that were geared towards doing pretty much the same thing. Because of this, a ton of money is being split up into just a bunch of little amounts of money. So, it would be better if there was one charity for one problem.

It stinks like white savior complex in here. I'm not sure what's worse - to take over a country, enslave its populace and pillage its resources, or to 'colonize' their freedom by handing it to them and then feeling all mushy inside about it after the fact.

Freedom is not something to be given to subjects, it is something to be taken by those who are subjugated.

That being said, while I'm against the simplistic notion that white people must rise up and save the poor ethnic people (which is what much of the Westernized charity industry is based on), there has been some talk about taking responsibility for the actions of one's ancestors, which I'd like to address.

As has been raised, the actions of one's ancestor has little, if no bearing at all on ones responsibility, however what needs to be raised here is the concept of white privilege, and to what extent the actions of ones ancestors (or the 'victors of history') have had in allowing that position of privilege. This is what makes the idea of helping 'the poor ethnics' all the more despicable - You can't claim to be doing something for the 'disadvantaged' when the past actions of your ancestors have given you a position of privilege which allows you to donate/intervene/etc. Either you give up all your privilege, live among the disadvantaged, become one of them, and then do what you must for their interests, or take the position of 'I will enjoy my privilege - this is what the reality of the global situation allows me to have and I don't give a shit about your situation'. The latter is what makes Kali's position much more authentic then the common - 'oh my ancestors were bad but I'm good and I'm out to help you' position.

Ardinius, I'm starting to think that you're a FacsistPatriot multi.

Indeed, contrary to the beliefs of the Gravemind, the sins of a father do not pass to his sons.

Right, just as soon as there's a queue of African nations lining up to tell us they don't want any aid because it would be racist, you go ahead and let me know.

Kali's and Ardinius's arguments might make sense if third world countries didn't want help, but they do, so....

And what you're pretty much saying is that they should help themselves, but what happens if they can't help themselves? I say we should help them help themselves.

Furthermore, I'm sick of you guys going on about the "white burden". If you fools are actually under the impression that only first world whites want to help people in the third world then there is no point in argument. That seems to suggest only whites live in the third world, and that's just insane.

The white burden bullshit is ridiculous. First people used it as an excuse to subjugate Africa, and now it's used as an excuse to ignore the mess left behind.

I'm pretty sure the only person against nation building here is Shaw.