Russia: we hate you too, we just forgot about you

I expect very little from governments, but Russia drops the ball even more and doesn't even have fair elections. They're pretty bad.

Oh yeah I forgot, your one of those people.

Why don't you try implementing democracy in a country that has never had democracy in its history expect for brief congress like things instituted by the czars with no real power that would be disbanded if they pissed the czar off.

At least a good attempt at at a free democracy.

Well apparently you've never heard of the Provisional Government, which was the Russian democracy that Lenin overthrew because he was a dick. Also, look at the US. It became a democracy after achieving freedom from a system of government where only the elite could vote, and the king still had a lot of power. Also, the incompetency of the Russian government doesn't excuse the horrors they have committed.

Every county gets the government that is fit for it.

They did give it an attempt. They still are trying, but obviously corruption and election fraud are major problems. But again, its a work in progress for a country that has had basically no democracy.

I agree, this is why I hate Lenin. But still, that "democracy" lasted for less than a year or so. That hardly gives Russia a history of democracy.

There was already a history of democracy. And remember, only white landowners were allowed to vote in the early days of the US, so don't act like all of a sudden it was a completely fair and free democracy. Lets also remember the Articles of Confederation failed for what was it around 10 years (?) before they eventually replaced it with the Constitution and our current system of government. Also, the US never had to endure feudalism and systems of that sort. It was a new land, with new opportunities, and it did not have the same long history of oppression as most European governments had. Remember England went through civil war to keep its democracy going, and it took a long time to transition to a fair democracy. France had a revolution and then descended back into dictatorship by the Bonaparte, and then began to stabilize. Germany took two world wars to become a stable democracy. As you can no doubt see, democracy has always had a violent and long period before it actually came into being in the country, and even longer after that until it was stable.

I didn't say it does. May I ask what "horrors" you are referring to? If you're referring to atrocities under the Soviets, I'm just going to remind you that was a different government, ideology, era, and even country.

They should rename it from "The Russian Federation" to "The Russian Mafia".
Also- @Ingvar

Most of the US could vote after the revolution. Articles of Confederation were just as democratic as the constitution. Yes, it did experience feudalism. Learn history before you debate it. England didn't really have a democracy, it was an aristocracy. Only the elite nobles had a vote the Victorian era. Can't argue with France, though I will point out that France was a monarchy after Napoleon, then a democracy, then an empire under Napoleon III, then a democracy. Germany would have had a stable democracy if not for the Treaty of Versailles.

If you don't even know what the Russian government does then don't debate it like you do. Like I said before, think before you post. Learn about something before you start ranting and supporting something, just because someone you don't like supports the opposite. God damn. Google is the most prevalent website in the world and you can't even use it?

England had already developed a long history of representative government prior to the founding of the American colonies. The primary cause of colonial decent was the fact that they were being taxed without proper parliamentary representation.

This is of course false. White landed males could vote, while states like New Hampshire got rid of this eqirement before the 1800s others like North Carolina didn't until the 1850s.

By the 1860s universal male suffrage was enacted in the UK, before that about 1 in 7 of the population held enough land to vote
Can't argue with France, though I will point out that France was a monarchy after Napoleon, then a democracy, then an empire under Napoleon III, then a democracy.[/QUOTE]
You're being far too black and white here, voting rights were extended to all males since the fall of the absolute monarchy.

Do as I say, not as I do.

You're right of course, I'm actually feeling like an idiot. Women couldn't vote, and the black slaves obviously didn't have a vote which would immediately exclude "most"

That's pretty much what I meant. Only the richest and nobility could vote.

True, but during the 2nd French Empire. Napoleon had all the power. The legislature was elected by popular vote, but it couldn't do much without the emperor.

Oh bah.

EDIT:

Representation of the aristocracy is what I was saying.

This doesn't translate to feudalism. The House of Lords still had to go through the proper legal motions in order to effect policy. Policy being the only thing they had the authority to effect.

Until the 1860s, then British suffrage basically surpassed the USA's.

You're right for about 10 years the legislature was basically rubber stamping Napoleon's laws. Then a constitutional monarchy was established.

By feudalism, I meant the giving of land to nobles.

Yeah, I know. I mentioned that

, although apparently I made a typo. I meant until the Victorian era.

Arighty, good to know.

Land ownership wasn't restricted to nobility in Colonial America, hence America having a relativity good sized voting population after the revolution even with such a restricted voter demographic. While we're on the subject, serfdom had long since been abolished in England by this point, so this wasn't the case there either.

Yes, but there was still land granted to nobles, which is what I was referring to. It wasn't widespread, but it was present.

Important to note that England was the seat of an Empire at this point in history and that these land grants were more a measure of solidify Imperial authority than anything. In any case, kind of negates that notion of America having experienced feudalism doesn't it?

I suppose, but it still existed. It probably would have been much more prevalent if the time between England and America wasn't so long, but I digress.

I feel inclined to point out that serfdom (one of the key features of feudalism) had been abolished since Magna Carta (1215ish), but I think I'll just call this one here.

My definition of feudalism is probably off so sure, I'll take your word for it.