Fascism is centrist?

crocve · Jul 26, 2011

I found this in the Internet and it kinda put me thinking about it: the left says fascism is right-wing and conservatives say it´s left-wing. Is it that they are non of the two?:

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Fascism is to be distinguished from interventionism, or the mixed economy. Interventionism seeks to guide the market process, not eliminate it, as fascism did. Minimum-wage and antitrust laws, though they regulate the free market, are a far cry from multiyear plans from the Ministry of Economics.

Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency, protectionism was necessary: imports were barred or strictly controlled, leaving foreign conquest as the only avenue for access to resources unavailable domestically. Fascism was thus incompatible with peace and the international division of labor—hallmarks of liberalism.

Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.

To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production.

The fascist leaders’ antagonism to communism has been misinterpreted as an affinity for capitalism. In fact, fascists’ anticommunism was motivated by a belief that in the collectivist milieu of early-twentieth-century Europe, communism was its closest rival for people’s allegiance. As with communism, under fascism, every citizen was regarded as an employee and tenant of the totalitarian, party-dominated state. Consequently, it was the state’s prerogative to use force, or the threat of it, to suppress even peaceful opposition.

If a formal architect of fascism can be identified, it is Benito Mussolini, the onetime Marxist editor who, caught up in nationalist fervor, broke with the left as World War I approached and became Italy’s leader in 1922. Mussolini distinguished fascism from liberal capitalism in his 1928 autobiography:

The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill. (p. 280)CONTINUED - THE CONCISE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ECONOMICS (http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html)

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/ ... 23413.html

It kinda makes sense, since corporatism is both against free-market and is also against class war.

Achtung Kommunisten! · Jul 26, 2011

Well there are different types of Fascism, for example in Italy a lot of Anarchist Syndicalists joined the Fascist and attempted to create a Fascist Syndicalism. I suppose economically, it's not neccessarily right-wing, and could even be seen by some as the 'third way'. Unfortunately 'National-Socialism' doesn't seem very fashionable at the moment. I can't think why...

pedro3131 · Jul 26, 2011

Okay, I'll take a stab at this one. It basically depends on what scale your using. In terms of economics, strictly speaking, it would be between free economics and command based economics, so in that sense it's centrist. However fascism was never really defined as a economically focused policy. Even the corporatism which it practices is really more of a natural outgrowth of it's more central tenants then a defining characteristic.

The article does a good job of bringing out some of the more obscure factoids about early fascism, but I think it's missing some of the central points and drawing some misguided conclusions. At its core fascism is about the primacy and expansion of the state over the individual. That's what differentiates it from classical liberalism or Marxism. It's not a matter of economic policy, but a matter of totalitarianism that denigrates the role of the individual in ALL roles.

Achtung Kommunisten! · Jul 26, 2011

Surely totalitarianism doesn't make you right-wing either, so I can safely conclude that Fascism is the centrist way forward!

SovietEmpireUSSR · Jul 28, 2011

There's different types of Fascism, but Fascism was never located as centrist for the most part. Fascism had it's left and right ideas, but everyone today would mostly recognize Fascism to be on the far-right spectrum. We see a lot of complexity towards Fascism, never really finding it's true meaning. People get simply confused to what it exactly is, but with enough knowledge on Fascism, you will get it.

Fascism economically is broadly corporatism, or perhaps State Capitalism. It recognized the class struggle between the Bourgeoisie and Proletariat, but was simply Anti Bourgeoisie and Anti Proletariat. Fascism despised market Capitalism, mainly because they saw it has no real country had it's own control, but simply getting manipulated by the lobbyist, globalists, bankers, etc obviously that is why Fascism was always against Laissez-faire policy.

Achtung,Kommunisten! - Aren't you far-right or something?

LampRevolt · Jul 28, 2011

Seems like Monarchy with a different title to me.

Achtung Kommunisten! · Jul 28, 2011

There are certainly some similarities, but ultimately, i'm yet to see very successful hereditary dictator. Plus a Fascist state is usually (thanks for that one Italy) a republic.

SovietEmpireUSSR said:

Achtung,Kommunisten! - Aren't you far-right or something?

Says the guy with 'Glory to the Wehrmacht' as his sig I like to think of myself as centre-totalitarian, if such a thing is possible. But obviously I still support the rule of law (specifically something like the Enabling Act, bwah ha ha ha! :lol: )
The far-right is too full of free-marketeers, libertarians, racists and general enemies of the state for me

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Fascism is centrist?

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