Greece: Who's leading?

With elections coming up for Greece (and Egypt) lets talk about the possibilities that may be the outcomes. The colitions are so divided that they needed a reelection to sort out their government... Or its a similar result, they will have one more reelection before they result in a stale meant government.

Greece is in one of the worst conditions right now. It owes almost 200 billion euros to Germany and has a 30% unemployment rate. However elections are looking in favor for a man who promises to leave the Euro and declare bankruptcy... If this happens, bond holders in Spain and Italy will sell and may go in a reccession. Germany, the leader of the Euro, is trying to hold on and threatens Greece, but it's not looking good for Europe. (I'm not gonna bother about France and their "tax the rich!" motto.

So I have to ask, who's taking the lead and who's to blame? The creators of the Euro? Germany? German bankers? Greece? Greek people? Who?

Well first of all Spain and Italy are already in recession. The people to blame are the people who accepted Greece into the euro and Greek politicians.

The people to blame are European capitalists and most importantly as of recent, French and German imperialism forcing Greece to do austerity and thereby greatly increasing the national debt.

The people to blame are the entire population of greece. They spend more then they could ever earn. Electing people into office making unrealistic prommisses. The only ones to blame are the people that brought the greeks into this situation and that's the greeks themslefs. Nobody forced them to live the way they did. Now they pay the price for it.

fixed...

Guess what bro? Greeks debt rose in proportion to the GDP till the economic crisis happened. Greece was doing nothing abnormal, if the capitalists gave up there wealth, Greece would be fine. Blame the capitalist class for hoarding wealth and creating a unsustainable system.

Oh lenin cat, the world must be so simple through the glasses of nonsence.

So greece did nothing abnormal?
Pensions with 56 to 99% of the last sallery
Having 40% of the population being directly employed by the state. And not through ownership of industry!
Shitty and old as fuck tax system / worst tax morale in europe
Burocracy that scares away all investors
The list goes on and on.

And just a little comment about the dept to gdp! Yes it is true it rose at the same ammount, but not because the economy was that great, but because they could borrow money at a absurdly low interest rate(for greek standards). Before the crisis the banks where "swimming in money". After the crisis hit they actualy had to pay attention to whom they give money, and it turned out that investing in greece is risky, now that money was rarer they stopped giving dumping interest rates to countries that didn't deserve it.

This was forseable but the greeks didn't care! They kept borrowing and borrowing because hey it was so cheap so why not???? And then the crisis hit, and they couldn't get money for cheap anymore!


Also if you take away all the money of the rich people in greece, you would not solve the problem! Their debt is so astronomicaly high!

Greece's polices where not extremely out of the realm of welfare states, if your gonna hate on welfare states you got a lot of states to hate.

As far as I am concerned nobody should pay any interest, if money is to exist at all, banking should be a public utility not a for-profit institution.

No, you wouldn't solve it solely by taking capitalist wealth, there's more debt on this planet then money due to the unstable fiat money system made by capitalists. But after the capitalist class is appropriated of there wealth, that wont exist anymore.

May I add capitalists(and financial capitalists/bankers mostly) are the ones who knew that giving all this money to Greece was a bad idea first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government_debt_crisis
read that and get your facts straight. This is not about welfare states, but uncontrolled, irresponsible and poorly executed public spending without the income-base to support it.

This is not a issue. there are a lot of welfare states that didn't borrow way over their head. Do you think the austerity massures in Gemany didn't hurt the people, or the cuts made in my country? Those cuts hurt! And they where made in time! But not the greeks, they thought the party would go on forever, and they didn't care for the bill. And yes their systems where way out of line! I allready mentioned pensions with 56 to rates of 99% of the last sallery. You can search far and wide in the EU no state had policies like that. Or the fact, that to this date, their entire tax system is based entirely on paper! What is this? the year 1975? No greece fucked up big time.

Yes and that worked in simpler societies 1000 years ago. During the middle ages in europe it was actualy seen as a sin or was outright illigal to take interest rates, but we aren't simple societies anymore. And what you propose is so far into fantasy world that it really is not worth discussing. Stay in the current world please.
As a side note Greece currently(for the last year) borrows money from the IMF to 0% conditions. That didn't help them either.

So it is their fault? Are the greeks little children? No they knew they would never be able to pay it back and borrowed it anyways. It is not the same as if you and me would walk into a bank and ask for 10 million dollar loan! That is not how international investmentbanking works.


Edit: but i digress it really is off-topic

I hope that Tsipras wins. Just to see what happens next

If you want a non-radical solution, nationalization of the banking system, with the government determining the supply of money, and taxing to take money out of the system when there's inflation.

It is the fault of capitalism for encouraging the act of putting short-term wealth above long-term.

So most governments aren't in control of the supply of money right now? I was under the impression that only the state could print money and decide the rate...
Inflation is not necessarily bad.

Not totally in control, no. Under this system, the government would spend money into existence, IE the government prints money to pay for more roads, that money is now in the economy. If it needs to take money out of circulation, it taxes, taxes are not for collecting revune, because the government prints all its money.

Imperialism? The jokes not funny after its told for the billionth time.

The taxes collected are also money and can be used for roads without having to print more money.

This doesn't...

But I...

*pauses for thought*

After careful examination I can determine that this post makes no sense.

Imperialism, Imperialism everywhere.

http://socialistworker.org/2012/06/06/what-syriza-stands-for

Seriously, Lenin Cat? More taxes and big government? This coming from an anarchist is preety suprising.

Not only that, it is capitalism´s fault? Even thougth it was already prooved that the Greek Crysis (and the Spanish Crysis and the Portuguese Crysis) happened due to much welfare and governemnt spending?

If I had a nickel for everytime capitalism is blamed for an economic crysis caused by the State, I would now be an obese millionaire film maker with a baseball cap.

Marxists are like faulty music tapes, with only one song inside. The title of the song is " It ´s Capitalism´s Fault".

The reason you raise and enforce taxes is to invest in stimulus spending and grow the economy not shrink it further.

So these guys won the election apparently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democracy_(Greece)