The Ancient History Thread Off Topic Homosexuality Debate.

I don't think they had more homosexuals, but homosexuality was seen as a virtue, and it was believed to be a good thing in battle, as lovers would fight their hardest to impress their loved one.

Side B,
Fey, though I am against homosexuality, there were many homosexuals in Greece. Most famous being Alexander and the Theban Sacred Band.

Slaves themselves had nothing to do with it. Fun fact is when Alaric besieged Rome for the first time before they agreed to terms, he went into Rome and basically freed any slave who wanted to be freed. Surprisingly, not many wanted to be freed because the conditions were worse being a regular low-income citizen than being a slave in Rome. Christianity played a big part because again, most early christians were pacifist which only helped hamper the ability of generals to recruit their a sufficient amount of men to fight the intruders. Not to mention, Christianity did the opposite of what Constantine intended it to do. He expected it to unify the people more, whereas it only seperated the people more. The Christians started cracking down on Paganism just as ruthlessly as the Romans had cacked down on Christians, and then they started splitting up into various different branches and fought each other. Christianity combined with a lack of stability, combined with corruption, combined with poor leadership combined with inflation, combined with barbarians pouring over the border=collapse.

That being said, I think at the time of Stilicho, Rome still had a huge chance of being saved. Stilicho had virtually passified Alaric and brought him around to the idea of "the Roman Empire", and all he had left to do was defeat Constantine the usurper, and he would have stabalized everything. Alaric remained loyal to the Empire until Galla Placidia basically took control of Rome and declared him an enemy, which lead him to sack Rome and then in my opinion, the Roman Empire for all intents and purposes ended for the most part right then and there.

Better not tell that to PoM! And the side thing wasn't being presented as a choice. Still, just two sides is far from enough, the fall of such a massive empire can hardly be given a single reason.

And really, I think to some extent, you can compare the fall of the Roman Empire with the fall of the Third Reich. Both had several reasons, (religious unrest, corruption, dwindling manpower, incompetent leadership, "invading" barbarians for Rome and resistances, the Soviets pushing them back very rapidly, the Allied assault and Hitler's poor decision making for the Third Reich) which in and of itself would most likely not have caused a fall.

I don't think ancient Greece had a larger percentage of homosexuals, but I do think they had more people who were openly homosexual.

Well from what I understand from my conversations, it is because the bible says being homosexual is a sin. -_-

I agree with you and it shouldn't. Homosexuality is no more harmful than loving a straight person, which is to say not at all. It also isn't something the person can change, so to claim it as a test is ridiculous. It is no more of a mental illness than any kind of love as well.

I believe that God created all of us, so why would he create us that which he hates and disgusts him? The bible was written by men and influenced by their personal beliefs I believe. The hate against homosexuality is a very outdated thing. The world is doing fine population wise and there are many kids that need loving families to adopt them.

It could not possibly be harmful and only harmful beliefs and actions should be attacked. If we were all tolerant against non harmful things and beliefs then the world would be a much better place and I think that is what God would want honestly.

Well many Christians believe that the holy spirit guided the writers thus it can't be wrong...

Believing the bible is 100% true is to embrace madness

The bible is a good guideline for our lives but it was written by men ages ago and it has been translated a lot. So yes, I don't agree with taking every word to be the absolute truth and not actually having a mind of your own about it to determine what is right to you.

Yep that's why I am agnostic theist(Christian)

Well, seeing as today, homosexuality is nearly a fucking crime, and back in the day people were proud of it, this really isn't a surprise. It's funny to see how a three thousand year old civilisation was socially superior to us in some parts. We win on female rights, though.

Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If I recall correctly, there's also a Bible passage that says bats are birds. Taking random parts out of it for the sole reason of being a dick is utter nonsense. Either live by it 100% or 0%, don't leave out parts that are convenient to leave out, and continuously cite those that allow you to justify being a total dick.

Bible translations have changed over time to reflect the social standards of the time. Rewrite it once again and get over the fact it isn't literally God's word.

Divine claims and authority...

People have shown they're perfectly able to be a decent person without the Bible. If you need a 2000 year old book that's filled with hatred and genocide to give you your good morals without giving it a thought yourself, it says more about you than about the book itself.

Let me clear this up and state that I agree with you guys. When I said that I meant from what I know of generalofcarthage, that is why he thinks that way.

Why is stealing, murder, adultery wrong? But slavery is perfectly fine and normal?

Although they'll certainly tell you about the ten commandments, they don't tell you what the Bible says about not following some of them. You'll be put to death...

Death penalty for...
Adulterers: Leviticus 20:10
Murderers: Exodus 21:12
Working on the Sabbath Day: Exodus 35:2
Cursing your parents: 20:9