What if Yoshimoto Imagawa defeated Nobunaga at Okehazama

Well for those of you who don't know I will explain the history. Yoshimoto Imagawa was Daimyo of the Imagawa clan and was in a marriage alliance with the Hojo and Takeda. the three clans created a sort of triple alliance and where some of the more powerful in there area. Yet they tended not to help each other but rather just not attack each other. The Takeda and the Imagawa did not get along well. Yoshimoto wanted to march on the capital and the only major daiymo in his way other than the Shogun himself was the Oda clan

To the west the Imagawa had the vassal Motoyasu Matsudaria later to be know as Iyeasu Tokugawa. Past them where the Oda Clan lead by Nobunaga Oda one of the best commanders to ever live in Japan at the time.

They clashed around 1560 at Okehazama. Nobunaga Oda managed to confuse the much larger Imagawa force and kill Yoshimoto Imagawa stopping his army and forcing them to route. Later the Matsudaria gained independance and joined the Oda as a vassal. This effectivley ended the Imagawa's plans for taking the capital as the Takeda would not help.

So what if yoshimoto succeded in defeating Nobunaga Oda? Would he be able to defeat the current Shogun Yoshiteru Ashikaga? How would he deal with other clans including the Takeda whose ruler Shingen (then known as Harunobu) was related to Yoshimoto via the marriage alliance.

You could literally be making stuff up and I wouldn't know the difference.

XD

Yeah going to be honest with you....I have no idea what your talking about (Must contact Japanese Imperial friend who hates everyone)

some guy wanted to take the capital by defeating a military genious. If he did how would it have changed Japan the end.

Well how would it, In your opinion?

Well it would not have given rise to the Tokugawa Shogun most likely and there for wouldn't experience a period of isolation or a Japan without firearms. Assuming he could defeat the other daimyo of course. Therefore Japan may have been able to resist American imperialism and joined the race for colonies earlier on. or even begun imperializing other areas in the 1600's. Can't be really sure of what Yoshimoto will do but he wasn't the most conservative guy nor the most liberal.

Yeah, see, I know what you are saying, but I don't see this thread making much progress.

I know this isn't like the one when of what if Nobunaga hadn't died.

So?
To most Westerners, Asian history is like an abstract theory. They simply don't teach much of it.
And just because I know does not mean that I am interested in hypothosizing what could-have-been.

By far the biggest difference this could make would be the possibility of Yoshimoto instead of Nobunga being the leader of Japan in Civilization 5.

LOL.

When they do teach the Asian history in the west, it is so dumb downed and routine it gets boring and everyone shies away, heck there even getting off the Romans alot now so its to be expected.

They dont teach it. I get info from many sources from books to TV and historical games that companies like Koei used to make.

Imagawa would have seized Kyoto and may well become shogun.

Would he be in favor of isolationism?

probably, Nobunaga was the only one who favored the interventionist view.

First of all, the Matsudaira never got independence, poor Ieyasu was Nobunaga's prisoner (bitch) until he was of age, then he got a small army, Ieyasu then simply kept on shitting and doing nothing of help for Nobunaga, and when the Oda conquered the Kanto region, Ieyasu got a pretty big army and a new name to be able to claim the title of Daymio, changing it to Tokugawa.

However if Nobunaga was defeated nothing of this would have happened and the Hojo would probably conquer Japan since they were one of the oldest and also the most powerfull clan of Japan until Nobunaga's rise to power that came from the defeat of Yoshimoto.

The imagawa defeated the Hojo.

The Hojo were defeated by Oda Nobunaga way after he got the Shogunate.