Who You Are: The Camel, The Lion, and The Child

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by MayorEmanuel, May 2, 2011.

  1. MayorEmanuel Do not weep, for salvation is coming.

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    436
    Trophy Points:
    143
    In Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Nietzsche outlines three "metamorphoses of the spirit"; how the spirit became a camel, the camel a lion, and finally the lion became a child. Let's think of these as the three stages of an individual's philosophical development. ---And notice these creatures amongst us.

    In the comments that follow, I promise very little fidelity to Nietzsche's original idea---because the passage from which his comments can be gathered is vague and sparsely populated. The passage that I'm referring to, however, provides a workable outline.

    My intention is to caricature the types of qualities that we all exhibit as participants at this site. Each quality is a function of what stage an individual is at, in their philosophical development (their 'spirit'). However, let's agree that a progression from one stage to another is not a departure, but a development. Each stage has some characteristic qualities, but we all have them to some degree within us. So, I consider someone to be at a certain stage when a particular quality is disproportional to the whole.

    The spirit becomes a camel:

    Nietzsche wrote:
    What is heavy? thus asks the weight-bearing spirit, thus it kneels down like the camel and wants to be well laden

    The kind of poster who represents the camel is the kind who kneels down and takes upon himself some massive load from the whole history of philosophy, carrying as much text inside himself as he can. Camels are beasts of burden, and the burden is always someone else's---some historical figure. If you cannot buy the text in paperback or hardcover, chances are that the camel-type of poster is not going to carry it. And of course, the direction a camel takes is always decided by the kind of load he has. Camels are strong, and probably carry a lot. So, this type of poster has a wide range of knowledge to draw from, and repeat. However, a well-burdened camel is always a tired and frustrated creature. Also, camels spit and chortle, chew and regurgitate, and spit again. And this type of poster usually offers nothing more than a spit and a chortle when they write---being too tired for anything else, except perhaps to drop a name. What you're likely to hear from a camel is a tired and frustrated, "this idea is good" or "...stupid"---but not much more. And don't leave it to the camel to decide what to say---again, that's decided by the load they carry (their master's burden).

    Somewhere in the lonliness of the desert a metamorphoses occurs, and the camel becomes a lion.

    As Nietzsche says, "the lion wants to capture freedom and be the lord of its own desert".

    Nietzsche wrote:
    What is the great dragon which the spirit no longer wants to call lord and God? The great dragon is called 'Thou shalt'. But the spirit of the lion says 'I will!'

    It's clear that nobody can become a lion who still chews and regurgitates the will of the master who they carry on their back. The lion is freedom. For Nietzsche, the lion is capable of clearing for itself the freedom to create (values, ideas, --whatever). This type of poster is willing to show his teeth and roar against some historical figure or idea. But the lion does this in a way unlike the camel, who can disagree with some idea only when he also carries some other idea on his back. The lion is rebellious, it wants to think for itself---and only knows how to do this by warding off others. You might hear a mighty defensive roar from this type of poster, when some idea approaches too closely---but you will hear little else from the lion's own voice.

    Nietzsche wrote:
    To create new values---even the lion is incapableof that: but to create itself freedom for new creation---that might the lion do...The child is a new beginning, a sport, a self-propelling wheel, a first motion, a sacred Yes. Yes, a sacred Yes is needed, my brothers, for the sport of creation

    Zarathustra is the child (Prologue 2). There is some connection between the creation of values and the child. When you think about it, a child is capable of imbuing life into lifeless objects. Creating the rules of a game they didn't themselves need to be taught. Seeing and noticing only the world itself, before being taught to read and burdened like a camel. Of course, none of this is literal. What characterizes the child isn't the total absence of the history of philosophy, but the ability to look on and use the history of philosophy like earthy material for it's own creation. After all, each of the progressions (metamorphoses) is not a departure, but a development. Someone at this, highest, stage of their development will probably be saying something highly original. And in response, you will likely see the camel spitting, and the lion roaring.
  2. Demondaze Xenos Scum

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,456
    Likes Received:
    925
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    TEXASLOL
    I'd like to think I'm like the child. However, most (If not all.) will probably make the same claim.
    Its much more likely that most members of this forum, including me, are lions and camels.
  3. MayorEmanuel Do not weep, for salvation is coming.

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    436
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Most are camels and few are lions. I have yet to see a child
  4. Chelsea366 Retired Moderator

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    6,865
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Gensokyo
    All 3. I am Childlioncamel. Half child, half lion and half camel.
  5. Demondaze Xenos Scum

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,456
    Likes Received:
    925
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    TEXASLOL
    Or, maybe we are all children!
    Food for thought.
  6. MayorEmanuel Do not weep, for salvation is coming.

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    436
    Trophy Points:
    143
    no, we do not create ideologies but mearly attack or support them (ussally in support of another). Only the truly great is a child (I'm not)
  7. Dudstraction! New Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    3,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Look at the first phrase under my sig
  8. Saito Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Message Count:
    646
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Chicago
    Camel/lion.... Although I'm not very good at being either one :O
  9. MayorEmanuel Do not weep, for salvation is coming.

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    436
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Did you get this idea from one of my posts?
  10. glodraz Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Mushroom Kingdom
    I am not really sure...could anybody tell me what they think I am/act like?
  11. MayorEmanuel Do not weep, for salvation is coming.

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    436
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Just from this question you are a camel through and through
  12. Dudstraction! New Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    3,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Nah "I meant the there can only one" phrase
  13. JayJayGT Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,569
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    89
    I am a Lamel, which is just 2 but this is what I am
  14. joske Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Message Count:
    609
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Well I'd like to argue that something like creativity doesnt really exists, what we think is creativity is actually repackaging and combining bits of ideas we pick up during our lifetime from which our beliefs and creations stem. Therefore a child would be somebody who would make old stuff seem newer then the camel or the lion.
  15. Demondaze Xenos Scum

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,456
    Likes Received:
    925
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    TEXASLOL
    There is truth in this statement.
  16. RoyalAnarchist New Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Message Count:
    379
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    The Natural State
    I am probably in the Lion phase. Back in the day I argued religion like a camel (which is why I dislike doing so anymore) but after finding Tool in 2008 I opened my mind and went on the path of becoming a libertarian. I have my own non-libertarian ideas in certain issues so perhaps I have some Child qualities.

Share This Page

Facebook: