American Politics are Dumb

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by Moltke the Elder, Feb 23, 2012.

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  1. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    The "problem" is with our conception of government and representation. I'm guessing you're of the belief that we should elect people to represent our interests and not some big corporation. There's a pretty big flaw in this logic that most people don't seem to realize. If you are entitled to be represented on your interests, why wouldn't an interest group (these take many forms, PACs, super pacs, think tanks, 527's, pm me or ask me if you want me to describe the differences between them all), which is nothing more then a group of like minded individuals bound together for some common purpose, entitled to that same representation? I'm sure a lot of you guys are active in clubs at your schools. Your clubs serve as a group of people who are all interested in the same thing. If, say, the robotics club lobbies the administration for more funds for the robotics program, isn't that just a representation of an aggregate of individual desires? Interest groups, are by their nature reflective of a certain sect of society, and I think most people confuse contradictory view points with valid view points.

    I could make a similar argument for corporations, as they're supporting the interests of their shareholders or really anyone who buys their product. However, I do think that corporations have a decided advantage in terms of monetary power (even though their ability to contribute is highly regulated into specific forms and areas) which puts them in a different category.

    Basically, in my mind this whole issue is systemic. What's interesting though is we didn't always think this way. We didn't even have the right to vote for Senators until into the 20th century. The senate was supposed to serve as a sheltered electorate (hence their longer terms) that would vote based on their best judgement for what's best for the country, rather then trying to represent their constituents. The idea there is you would pick the wisest men who were best suited to govern, and they would counteract these public interests (or factions as Madison termed them), which have been derailed since Plato's time, and aren't a uniquely American or 21st century problem
    pedro3131, Feb 23, 2012
    #21
    Warburg, slydessertfox, Sparticus 1244 and 2 others like this.

  2. ComradeLer Proud Anti-Patriot

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    Oh hai shaw!

    Also, I'm inclined to agree with mayor on this issue. The US is not stupid. Everywhere is stupid.
    ComradeLer, Feb 23, 2012
    #22

  3. RickPerryLover strawberries oh sweet Jesus strawberries

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    You wouldn't believe how many people I have met that think it is the Liberals that want to reduce the size of the government and that Conservatives are the same as Nazis and want to control everything.
    RickPerryLover, Feb 23, 2012
    #23

  4. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    ......oh nevermind then, glory to you all intelligent masters who are far better then I for I am just a simple minded fool who has been taught all his life that he is intelligent even though he is clearly an idiot and should never be allowed to breath.
    Viking Socrates, Feb 23, 2012
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  5. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    I know exactly what you're talking about.
    The Shaw, Feb 23, 2012
    #25

  6. Karakoran Well-Known Member

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    Pssshhhh, who could possibly think an economist would be better at running an economy than a career politician?
    Karakoran, Feb 23, 2012
    #26

  7. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    not Putin. I mean he did steal his economic thesis and fired the best economist in the Kremlin because of political issues.
    Viking Socrates, Feb 23, 2012
    #27

  8. 0bserver92 Grand King of Moderation

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    Well since I did this two months ago I have to agree. Goddamn the school board are pricks when it comes to funding.
    0bserver92, Feb 23, 2012
    #28

  9. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    Excuse my lack of knowledge, but explain to me.
    Viking Socrates, Feb 23, 2012
    #29

  10. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    And that's all these "evil interest groups" are... A bunch of adult robotics clubs members trying to get more money for robots
    pedro3131, Feb 23, 2012
    #30

  11. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    How dare they do that. I mean whats next an art club trying to get money for art supplies or a book club getting money for more books. you are completely insane and out of touch of reality, and I am so not sarcastic right now.
    Viking Socrates, Feb 23, 2012
    #31

  12. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    It's good to know I have supporters on all sides. It'll help in the end.



    Seven?



    Ah, don't beat yourself up. You aren't the only one.
    The Shaw, Feb 23, 2012
    #32

  13. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    Actually it's pretty complicated so anyone who wants to know the legal differences between different interests groups and what they're legally allowed to do/say/spend money on, just shoot me a pm with your email and I'll email you my handy dandy reference table
    pedro3131, Feb 23, 2012
    #33

  14. RickPerryLover strawberries oh sweet Jesus strawberries

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    Darn, you're good at that. Hmm, I have to go think about this.
    RickPerryLover, Feb 23, 2012
    #34

  15. 0bserver92 Grand King of Moderation

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    Wait you have a reference table for this? Send me one please. Either PM it or just send it over Skype if you can please.
    0bserver92, Feb 23, 2012
    #35
    Viking Socrates likes this.

  16. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    Email me a low quality photograph of that reference table on your computer. With the flash on.
    The Shaw, Feb 23, 2012
    #36

  17. 1Historygenius Member

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    I disagree respectfully, note that if there was a "two party system" gentlemen like H. Ross Perot, George Wallace, and T.R. in 1912 have actually gotten close to winning. There will always be powerful parties and less powerful parties. If the people want socialism they would vote for the Socialist Party USA, the Socialist Workers Party, Socialist Action, Socialist Alternative, Socialist Equality Party, Freedom Socialist Party or any other socialist party. But have you noticed something? I have researched and found at least 6 socialist parties in the USA. All of them have socialist ideologies and thus the only differences are the candidates, but if there was only one socialist party? Then the socialists may very well be more effective in a general election. Note that there are many copycats of the two mainstream political parties such as the Democrats with the Green Party and the Peace and Freedom Party and for the Republicans you have the Libertarian Party and the Modern Whig Party. Then you have parties that don't have any copycats like the stupid Prohibition Party which hopes to win based on the key issue of 2012 being alcohol.
    1Historygenius, Feb 23, 2012
    #37

  18. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    I think it's quite clear that you have no idea what you're talking about, and there's no way to sugarcoat it.
    The Shaw, Feb 23, 2012
    #38

  19. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    To all, I have it in a word doc... The easiest way to not loose formatting is via an email attachment. I've emailed it to Mayor and Viking already so they could also forward it if so inclined
    pedro3131, Feb 23, 2012
    #39

  20. 1Historygenius Member

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    I know what I am talking about, that is why I posted it. Frankly, I do not know how someone can have no idea what they are talking about when they are talking about something. I was just responding to what the person posted and that does not mean I should received any disrespect.
    1Historygenius, Feb 24, 2012
    #40
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