Apparently the Massacre At Tiananmen Square never happend says WikiLeaks

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by BOOGEYMAN, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    As long as you have a plurality voting system you're never going to be properly representative.
    Proportional representation is the best realistic voting system to represent people and I can't for the life of me understand why the people of the US haven't demanded/voted that it should be instituted. The two major parties of course have an interest in keeping the current system, but the not the population.
  2. LeonTrotsky Well-Known Member

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    Will of the people is BS. Why? Because people believe in different things. Example: When President Obama backs and signs a bill, of the people who care enough to have an opinion, about 25% think it's a socialist scheme to destroy America. 10% think it's not liberal enough. Another 15% just think it won't work or hurt them. The rest have no idea how economics works, so they're probably unhappy too. The will of the people is a myth. The only way the will of the people is reflected is when those who disagree are lined up for a firing squad.
  3. Karakoran Well-Known Member

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    Democracy merely causes governments to grow on their own fat. Think, America, Greece, Italy, Turkey, France, Germany, the UK, Japan, etc. To an extent, it's kind of disgusting.

    Not to say Authoritarianism doesn't have it's own problems.
  4. D3VIL Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that no-one agrees with their legislators? If so, surely that's an argument for more democracy. I.e. more action from the ground up - something which Chomsky thinks is critical.

    Why is public healthcare never on the table when a majority of Americans want it?
  5. crocve Well-Known Member

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    The demonstrations defended the enlargmentof the reforms that were happening in China, including more economic freedom and freedom of expression. It is not propaganda. It is an historicall fact. It´s inserted in the 1989 Revolutions against communist dictactorships. When Gorbatchev (father of the Perestroika and Glasnost) went to China that same year, the demonstrators acquired sympathy for him, because they wanted the same for China.

    Most communists, like you, use always the same argument: propaganda. It is simply idiotic and insane. And is even more idiotic the fact that people like Maoist Rebel News2 (from youtube), who say that demonstrations were against the reforms. And what is the argument that they use to try to falsify reality? Of course, they say is propaganda.
  6. LeonTrotsky Well-Known Member

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    It's not that people don't agree with the ledgeslators, it's just that there are so many different views on any issue that no matter what decision the ledgeslators make, there will be general grumbling about it. You live in the UK, so imagine what happens when the House of Lords passes some kind of resolution. There are people who like it and people who don't, and generally there are more people who don't because there is usually only a few groups who like the bill completely.
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  7. Kalalification Guest

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    You're using unpleasant language, but you haven't actually pointed out any flaws...
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  8. mdhookey Well-Known Member

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    Usually when I see anything from Maoist Rebel News, I snort and roll my eyes. This was no exception.

    Anyways, to the point, the U.S. is a democratic state, warts and all. As someone who grew up in California and now lives over in Germany, I'm familiar with both systems, and know that the U.S. is far from being any kind of dictatorship. And yes, there is a major form of direct democracy in America...the citizens' ballot initiative. It does not exist on the federal level, but it is a very real fact on the state level (just as it is here in Germany and also in parts of Canada). As an example, look at my home state's ballot initiative process. Many ballot initiatives, lo and behold, do not show any overwhelming "demand of the people" in regards to controversial opinions. You will usually see the same partisanship that you witness in representative legislatures. Just look at Proposition 8 in 2008, the ballot initiative that asked whether to ban gay marriage or not. There was nearly 80% voter turnout across California, and it passed 52% to 48%. Debate the merits of the law all you want and its civil rights (I personally voted against it), but it reflected that Californians were hardly united.

    I'm all for universal health care, but I'm realistic; if you ever put it on as a ballot initiative to the voters, there will hardly be unanimous support for it. Quite the contrary, it will be incredibly divisive. Direct democracy can be a very messy, conflicting affair.
  9. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    Very rarely do the people ever come together in an almost unanimous support, unless you live in one of those african nations where its like "98% of the nation voted for me" which is unrealistic.

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