I donno about that one. It would be useless for them to do that. If the NCR tried that, I'm pretty sure that their canon ending would be the same as the BOS's story.... fighting to the end. @ Kali SF itself is not really referenced in FO:NV. All the conjecture is useless, though. Bethesda should have the confirmations somewhere...
I'm pretty sure the Canon has NCR win...i mean the NCR have gone from fallout 1 to fallout new vegas and it just seems to be Bethesdas pet project...
I don't think so because Bethesda has plagued them with corruption and shit. An NCR Empire at this point would be silly. Though the idea of a Legion Empire isn't very reasonable either. Nor is the Wildcard or the Mr. House ending. Actually I think the Wildcard would be the best because it's by far the most interesting. But it would make a hard next game because of how many factions would arise.
That's kind of the point. The Shi would have been, at the very least, mentioned if they were still around. The fact that they weren't means that either they got wiped out, as the most likely endings in 2 and the state of the NCR in F:NV indicate, or they were absorbed into the NCR. They were extremely advanced, but, just like House and all of the garbage from Tactics, they can't continue to exist if the world is to stay in a shape that allows future Fallout games to be made.
Epic necro is epic. And as I stated, the conjecture is useless. Either they still exist or they don't. Until such time as Bethesda confirms one way or the other, I will continue to operate on the assumption that they still exist and are seperate from the NCR. Also, the majority of the terrictories outside of the Mojave were not cited at all. Are we to assume that either the NCR or the Legion have just conquered them all? The fact of the matter is that they didn't fill in alot of the details concerning either side beyond their extensions in the Mojave and therefore we just don't know what the state of the terrictories are. Stay in shape? What in the world does that mean? What path are they going down that they cannot turn aside? As I pointed out before, they have already deviated from the orignal course of the game - survival against all odds with the BOS being the top major good-guy faction.
Except that's stupid, because it's established in New Vegas that the NCR controls everything west of Hoover Dam, including at least part of Baja California. If the Shi didn't get wiped out, then they have long since been assimilated into the NCR. However, it's much more likely that they're entirely gone, because if they were still around then the NCR wouldn't need to mangle the power armor they steal from the Brotherhood, as the Shi are capable of refurbishing it. California is under 100% NCR control, Caesar has Arizona, Colorado, and presumably large swathes of Utah. ED-E reveals that there are no major factions at least from the east coast to Illinois, though it's heavily implied (by the state of the Enclave in F:NV, most notably) that there aren't actually any forces even remotely comparable to Caesar's Legion or the NCR anywhere in the US. There's a lot of information given about the NCR and the Legion, especially in Lonesome Road and Honest Hearts. The Shi were in the process of creating a fleet of Vertibirds by the end of Fallout 2 (incidentally, the lack of a sizable NCR fleet of Vertibirds, and the fact that it's explicitly stated that they got the ones they do have from the Enclave, is yet another indicator of the death of the Shi), House claims he'd be colonizing other planets in a hundred years, and Tactics is just full of ridiculous non-canon bullshit. If these parties were to survive, they would destroy the setting. The Shi were working on a cure for radiation (surprise, surprise, radiation is still around in F:NV...), had the means to produce working power armor and Vertibirds. If their survival is canon, then they upset the balance of power in the Fallout universe considerably, because they would just steamroll all of the other factions with their superior technology and resources. Same goes for House and the Calculator.
Look, either it is canon or its not. Bethesda could easily defy all logic and just make things canon if they want. The rise of the NCR and the 'assimilation' of factions (assuming that the Shi were assimilated) would cause the same things that you claim would destroy the universe and its just as disruptive to the original flow of the story. I don't think that we are in conflict that the NCR probably won in the Mojave, therefore House is not a problem. The Shi are a secluded faction that jealously guards its technology and showed no interest in expanding beyond possibly going back home. That they didn't share the radiation-curing technology (which is the plant) may just be a product of their own selfishness. The same goes for the power armor technology and the Vertibirds. Please cite where you find that Tactic was non-canon and indicate which parts are and which parts are not. How convenient. Still a necro-post.
Okay, well they haven't done that, and there's nothing to indicate that they would do that. Which is why it's far more likely that they were wiped out by the radiation eating plant. If they were assimilated, the NCR would have access to Vertibird and power armor technology, and they clearly don't. There's also no mention of them, so it seems considerably more probable that the Shi are completely gone, killed by the plant. House can't survive for the same reason the Shi can't. That's my point. Not sharing it with the NCR is out of the question. If they had the tech and didn't offer it, then the NCR would force them to do so. The lack of a reference to any kind of conflict of that sort belies the fact that the Shi simply weren't around to be forced into that arrangement. It's common sense, but the primary source would be ED-E, the Vegas Brotherhood, Ulysses, and Caesar. ED-E traveled the whole of the Midwest, and there was no note whatsoever of any kind of faction's presence there. There is no mention of any Brotherhood presence outside of NCR territory aside from the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood (who also indicate the non-canon nature of the Midwestern Brotherhood as a major faction). Ulysses' whole argument revolved around the Courier's destruction of a 'third nation' at the Divide. He only makes references to three other nations, one of which is pre-War America, the other two the NCR and the Legion. Caesar mentions that he has dealt with the Brotherhood before, but the fact that he didn't consider them a threat (no troops left on his eastern border) and that he controls most of Colorado shows that, even if a Midwestern Brotherhood is canon, Tactics isn't. Necroposting is only against the rules if it doesn't contribute to the discussion.
Tactics, as far as I know, was and is considered canon. Appearently what happened was the developers wrote off the Midwestern BOS by saying that Ceasar's Legion destroyed them down to a nub (still some milling about). It, of course, defies all logic. Which is part of the reason why I don't rule out them keeping the Shi unless they directly say that the Shi no longer exist.
Agreed with above that the Legion could have a chance to become canon because what else is there? Bethesda had to introduce a new faction to create a Good vs Evil match up...if the next Fallout does take place in San Fran than I assume the Enclave would actually be involved this time (not one small companion quest) and the BoS would also be a faction...The problem with this is that it could become a Fallout 3 clone, which I feel Bethesda doesn't want happening. Logically though, could the Legion have won that battle, absolutely, but the problem is that there are no more "enemies" in the Fallout world any-more (besides the everlasting BoS vs Enclave battle). The master is dead, Raven rock is destroyed, Virus destroyed, Frank is dcead, really what is left..because I swear, by the Fallout nerd within me, I will be pissed if it is Enclave again. Legion vs BoS and enclave would be alot more interesting....
There are tons of unexplored areas in the US, as well as the remnants of Canada and Mexico. We have no idea what went on in Canada, and only know about Mexico from a short period after the war (via Raul's accounts). I doubt that the Enclave will reassume antagonist status, and even if they did they simply wouldn't have the manpower to deal with most of the other major factions. That said, I think the next major conflict in the Fallout series will be an internal one. The tenuous nature of the NCR's stability in California proper is very heavily alluded to throughout the game. Cattle barons control the vast majority of the land, and common people live in abject poverty. There are a handful of industries, which are more like merchant guilds than companies, and virtually everything that is produced is produced by a monopoly. Even with a victory at Hoover Dam, the cost in both lives and dollars (and hell, Caesar effectively destroyed the value of the NCR dollar) is extremely high on the Republic, and if their ending is any indication, their response is to tax peripheral territories (read: colonies), who don't get real representation in the NCR government, harshly. And I'll be damned if that doesn't set off any alarm bells.
I'm not sure how interesting it would be to deal with the NCR's internal affairs....it seems like a very mundane job, like the NCR crop quest in New Vegas...I dont think that could be the whole point of a game. I think before in the forum someone said (and I agreed with) Bethesda not moving the Fallout franchise outside the USA. With that said, what you described above was actually addressed several times in the Fallout New Vegas game...NCR's inability to control roads, farms and heck even towns was their glaring weakness. If you play the Yes Man route at the very last point when talking to General Oliver he says that it is near impossible to control the Mojave and keep it safe. The NCR is the closets the wastes have to a democracy though it is expected that they have many flaws such as those described above. I would like there to be another game vs a new enemy but I doubt that will happen....anyways I think if Bethesda does go with NCR winning the battle it could be a very boring San Fran thats for sure.
I think seeing the NCR losing and then having a fallout based on dealing with their internal affairs would be interesting. Maybe it could inevitably be leading to the collapse of the NCR and rise of a few more feuding factions in their place. edit: Also having the legion losing, and then just being done with them would not make sense in my opinion. I think bethesda introduced the legion for it to become the next major faction that topples another, already established faction.
actually the house ending does seem very likely. since houses plan all along i belive was to simply wait for NCR and legion to wear themselves down over Hover dam. Plus there's probably nobody in both sides that could of goten into the lucky 38 like the courier could have. plus house had an army of robots that even unupgraded could have taken out a weakened NCR and legion presence that would be left after the huge battle for the dam.
