CAPITALISTISM STUPID, OR STUPID AND PSYCHOTIC?

Not to mention the fact that, even if you find it unfair that the children of the rich get a leg up, their parents, or grandparents, earned that money through their own blood, sweat, and tears most of the time, and it's fully within their rights to ensure their family is well off for generations, as it should be. The fact that some portion of the 1% was born into it isn't inherently a bad thing, it just shows that their forefathers invested their money well. Any sense of unfairness would be primarily envy based. People shouldn't be punished nor looked down upon because their parents were successful. Feel free to ridicule Paris Hilton for her idiocy, but because of how she received her wealth.

It's also probably worth mentioning that most who are born into wealth go into some field of business themselves. Paris Hilton has made millions off of slapping her name on products and looking pretty, and, despite the complete and utter lack of challenge, it's money she made for herself.

As a person born into a very poor family I can tell you that it was my parents' faults. Neither of them went to college, and my dad was expelled from highschool. And so they married and started a family when they were only 21, moved to a new state, and my dad got a job working at a plastic printing plant. And we have been poor ever since. Who's fault is that? Capitalisms? I don't think so.

The great thing is, I'm smarter than the average jerk, and so I can go to a good college, and get a good job, and not be poor anymore. That's the beauty of capitalism.

What do they print on the plastic? Or do they make the plastic? I googled it but came up empty.

You know how when you go to Wal-Mart and they put your stuff in a plastic bag that says "wal-mart" on it, yeah, they don't make plastic with "wal-mart" already slapped on there. They have to print it.
He works in a plant owned by Berry Plastics.

Well now I feel retarded.

Yeah, well, you're not the guy who's been printing "Wal-Mart" on plastic bags for the past sixteen years to support a family.

I suppose not, but still, I can't help but feel dumb for not figuring that out. Live and learn, I suppose.

Except most of them didn't get their money through "blood, sweat, and tears."(btw was that a partial Churchill quote?)
They should be allowed to keep(most of) that money.

Yes, blame envy. It's not like I come from a rich family and have every chance of becoming richer myself because I'm smarter than most.(I didn't get anything under an A, to compare, in my finals) I would be much better off under a capitalistic society than a socialist one, but I still want the latter. How can that be because of envy?

I agree to the first and she can definately keep(or most) the money her parents left her, but I want her children and the children of the poor factory worker to both have decent chance of a good education.(and that doesn't just mean that the child of the factory worker can only get it if he/she is really smart)

Sure, she can keep what's left after tax.

I'm with Shaw on this one, but its hardly my parents fault. My dad was a Immigrant from El Salvador (I don't blame you if you don't know where it is.) he came here when he was around 16, went to high school couldn't afford college and worked as a foreman in a aircraft factory he met my mom, who was straight out of college and got a job with a local hospital as a Insurance accountant, we would have lived happy middle class lives if my dad didn't get Mesothelioma and die, so my mom had to raise 4 kids on a 1.5K every 2 weeks fixed income, we went from middle class to low class, but now i got lucky I happened to be of the higher intelligence and I got into a prestigious college (UCLA) I thank capitalism.

It's a figure of speech, but my point still stands. The vast majority of them earned their money through fair means.

You certainly weren't who I was referring to. I was referring to those who lament about how unfair it is that some are born in to wealth, like it's a inherent problem with the capitalist system, when in reality, it's not a bad thing.

Barring our recent recession, the middle class has been growing steadily throughout the first world, and because of that, more of those kids are going to school. I also support growing scholorship programs. Luckily, that's happening as well. More and more of those kids are going to college, but here's the thing. People should still have to be smart to go to college. And, I know, at least from my college experience, that most poor kids, who are of moderately above average intelligence, get into college. Does that mean they don't have to take out loans? No, but that's a unfortunate fact of higher education, but thankfully, if you went to college, you should have the money to pay off the loans quickly. I don't think there are massive amounts of poor people who deserve to get into college, who aren't.

We agreed on the rest(mostly)

And that's good, but not enough.

I would bet that the intelligence of the average rich college student is lower than that of the poor. I would also say with a certain confidence that the average college student in Denmark is smarter(although that's hard to measure) than the counterpart in the US.

A FACT?! Oh come on! In Denmark we don't have to pay to go to college, we get PAID... So tell me again how that is a fact? What if you drop out of college and you are left with a large debt to pay off. How are you supposed to do that? Or what if you finish college, but can't get a job. How can you pay of your debt then?

How do you define who deserves to go to college? I know what you mean, but do the children from poor families have a fair chance compared to the children of rich families?

Here our best university is free, and so our best hospitals. Ha,take that capitalism! (? Although, said hospitals are commonly full of people.

I would bet that's horseshit, and that it's roughly equal, regarding rich and poor. As for Denmark, I would hope so, considering how much better your education system is than the one in place in the good ol' US of A.

That's dumb. You shouldn't pay anyone to take the necessary steps to better themselves. People should do it out of free will, not financial incentive.

It is for the vast majority of colleges not in European countries. It's one thing to say college or higher education should be free, but it's ridiculous to think that I should pay for people to help themselves. People should want to go to college, and they shouldn't have to be paid to do it.

College dropouts are the worst kind of despicable, barring tragic or other unseen circumstances. Unless your family is literally starving to put you through school, there is no reason to piss away a opportunity at a better life. The same applies to high school dropouts, barring special circumstances, your just dumb.

Grit your teeth and do what you can. Take out loans, do odd jobs, renegotiate terms. It's possible. Chances are, in a standard economy, you should have a job in six months.

The intelligent and driven deserve to go to college. Those who lack one or the other do not. And when it comes to poor kids getting into college, I would say they have the same chances as someone in the middle class. Only the extremely wealthy pay for their kids entire college, and only the wealthy pay for more than a semester. The poor kid has the same shot as that kid who lives in the suburbs. As for the rich kid, sure, it isn't fair, but remember, his father probably worked so he could give his kid a good education, so it's not like the opportunity is being robbed of anybody.

My god man. Think this shit through real hard.

Well it isn't in Denmark(big survey about 3 months ago) and I think the difference would be even more visible in the US with the even larger social inequality.

They do it out of free will. They get paid so they can focus entirely on school, and they don't need a job on the side.(though most need one anyway because it's a little low) This give the students a lot more time for school and homework(which we have a lot of) and the quality of the education goes up significantly.

You can't just exclude an entire continent and still call it a fact... That's just stupid. Admit it, you were too quick.

They do want to go to college. Believe it or not, we still reward the intelligent and industrious people in our society with massive wealth and social status.

Which is exactly the circumstances in some cases. They are left with a large debt, a dead father(example), and a family who they need to feed.

So your solution(or one of them) to paying your debt is to take out a loan.(well I guess it works for the US ) I mostly agree, but just wanted to point it out.

And you acquire most of your knowledge through the basic education. And if the basic education sucks you're not going to learn what you need to, to get into college.

That sounds like bullshit, but I can't disprove you.

I agree, but the same opportunity should be given to the poor kid.

Economic status doesn't have a direct correlation to intelligence. A rich person, barring private school, is just as educated as a poor person. Now, their drive and such comes from the environment they live in, be it a positive or negative one, or a rich or poor one.

Having a job on the side isn't a bad thing, and you should still be able to balance a social life, work, and school work. I don't agree with any sort of financial bait for college kids. What would be so punishing about a free education, and then having a job? College kids in America and the rest of the world do it every day, and they turn out just fine. Probably with a better work ethic. You should have to strive even harder for things like a degree.

I can when it doesn't work that way for the vast majority of the world. Either way, it's the truth for most people. It's certainly a fact for American students anyway.

I'm sure some of them do. But that doesn't mean you should pay them to strive for something higher than the lower-middle.

That's the circumstances for few, and a nightmare for many. But I don't think you can punish the system for chances of fate.

Short term, you don't really have many options. It's not ideal, but you do what you have to.

Colleges expect only what was taught to you. If you aren't taught very well, they won't expect as much seeing as they are forced to cater to what the PSS can provide.

The middle class kid get's the same scholarship opportunities, hell, maybe even less with all the programs aimed at the lower class, as the poor kid, and those are going to be both classes primary mean of getting through college, seeing as neither class has the capacity to pay for it.

I don't disagree, but until we can find a system in which the government can provide higher education for a drastically reduced or nonexistent price, this system will have to do.

Oh, I didn't mean that...
I meant that the average intelligence(IQ) of a poor student in college is significantly higher than the average IQ of the rich student. Showing the significant disparity between what the state-funded services can provide and what the rich parent can provide.

As I said we have the school as our full-time job. If people want a job on the side and can handle that then great, but it should not affect your education in a negative way. Like I said the quality of education is higher in Denmark thanks to this. It's not financial bait. You get mabye 1000$ a month if you live on your own. It's enough, but not by much.
Just fine is not good enough. We should strive for perfection or at least the extraordinary.

NO, you bloody can't! Just because Kangoroos only live in Australia doesn't make them extinct to the rest of the world. Just because Denmark is the only country in the world(which it isn't) that pays you for going to school doesn't make it a fact for the rest of the world that you have to pay for school.
Oh and America isn't the whole world...

Look above. We don't exactly "pay" them. We support them so they don't have to take a full time job to be able to live in an apartment.

But you should have exceptions for those cases. The promising student should not have to take a work at the local factory(or whatever) to support his family.

PSS?(Public School System?)
Thought you just say the standard of education shouldn't be lowered.

Which should be altered. You're not using the full potential of people if you deny them, just because they can't afford higher education.

... Do I have to point out the obvious?...
Look at Europe!!

Edit: I'm genuinely enjoying this.

True. Living in the US I will probably have to work at least one job to help pay my tuition. I'm fine with that. I already have a job now in high-school, and have learned to balance work, school, and play.

Also true.

I would really need to see some sort of proof of this. It almost sounds like a reverse Bell Curve.

Real life is just not like this. At all. It would be nice to think that we can focus on a single objective, but we cannot. Perfection is not a reality.

Most college students I know do not have full time, 9-5, five day a week jobs. They usually work part time.

Shit happens

12 syllables, 3 words. Sounds like someone got pedro'ed.

But on the topic of our greasy-haired Republican friend, I actually had a small discussion about this in my class today. We were talking about the tax code, and someone brought up Romney. Now this person as well as other started on their "DUH REPUBLICAN PARDY ES DE EBULZ" rant. So, in the nature of fairness, I decided to defend Romney... to a fault, of course. I just pointed out that they hated him mainly because he's rich. Then I made the argument that to a good portion of the United States and the world would find us just as disgusting in our exploitation of US tax policy. While we are not as wealthy as Romney, most of us are a heck of a lot better of then those working for less than $30,000 a year, and that to them, our use of the tax code amounts to the same thing. Through that one back in their faces, didn't I?

Sorry, but I can't provide that.(on paper(if I can even find it), in Danish and I'm not about to start scanning) We got it in school though so I think it's pretty credible. You don't really have to believe me, but I can even see this in my own class

I know, but a job can be extremely distracting and take up a lot of your time. We should strive for the extraordinary then...

Part time then(like 20-30 hours) Things are pretty expensive/different in Denmark.

And you don't want the state to help you when it does?