Dante's Inferno: An Examination of Justice

My thoughts exactly.

A holy book doesn't have to be the direct word of G-d or a deity in general. It might be mankind's interpretation of the word of said deity.

To explain, I'll put my own beliefs on the chopping block. I believe that only the mitzvah were the word of G-d, and that the a good chunk of the Torah was invalid, and simply a attempt to explain's life many mysteries. Instead of the Torah being G-d's word, it's really just the spirit of the times, which is why I reserve the right to dispute it's validity.

are you Jewish? if so sweet.

How the hell did you not know that? It's talked about everywhere.

two words, I'm new. and besides someone faith is not relative to my views on theme (heck i would propley more interested now knowing hes Jewish to learn more about the faith) but no i didn't know he was Jewish and now i do, and LEARNING IS HALF THE BATTLE, OR SOMETHING STUPID LIKE THAT.

Yes I am, and training to become a Rabbi.

Thats awesome. I wish you Luck on becoming a Rabbi, anyways back on subject Dante's inferno does the Roman Catholic church even recognize it at all or use it as a Accept Jesus become catholic or see what will happen to you.

Also is anyone here familiar with the argument that Florence had with Ravenna over the possession of Dante's body even resulting in what i believe where some political members in Ravenna calling Florence a hell hole and any modern decented of Alighieri still living in there doesn't deserve his name.

Thats awesome. I wish you Luck on becoming a Rabbi, anyways back on subject Dante's inferno does the Roman Catholic church even recognize it at all or use it as a Accept Jesus become catholic or see what will happen to you.
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GRAMMAR!!!!!!!

Back to topic. While the Catholic Church has been influenced by the entirety of the Divine Comedy, it is by no means doctrine.

Dang so i guess that doesn't mean there a place in the inferno for Lustful Wrathful Lieing traders like me. Tough the Poem its self does a good job of poetic justice and each of the punishments suits well with the sin being committed.

Fixed. Just wondering; is English your first language?

Edit- @matthewcris-What do you need to do to become a rabbi?

But that's what I'm talking about. The more educated and well off people are the more they seem to rationalize away religious convictions. Rules turn into guidelines. Guidelines that we like to pretend don't exist. I believe accepting your god completely should be an extremist point of view, it's taking an irrational stance on a impossible to solve issue. However clearly people would rather just keep titles and drop rules entirely , change things up to meet the demands of not living like a barbarian and carry on with their generally non-religious lives.

Sadly it my best spoken but i was never taught proper grammar (and really i just don't like i's being capitalized because i view it as unnecessary to Capitalize one single letter and the dot is so cool) and more of an orator then a writer, got called the return of Cicero by my Philosophy teacher.

And i am also curious to what is the requirements to become a rabbi?

Yeah: Matthew 5:17
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."

Even Jesus commandment that he is overriding the old law is contradicted by Jesus making a new law that he will not destroy the old law. Bible be contradictory and certainly allows for the Crazy shit in the old testament to be endorsed by Jesus in the New. Live with it.

As Regards Dante's Inferno
I found it to be a not so enjoyable read but very enjoyable intellectual exercise. I'm not sure I agree with the justice in the book but its interesting to see what they thought of as justice at the time when he was writing, particularly in Italy whihc was very turbulent, corrupt etc. Remeber this was around the same time when "The Prince" was writen (I think).

I think that might be a translation issue. What he meant was that the "old" law would still exist i.e. Christians still believe in Ten Commandments, but also follow the new teachings as well. Jesus was saying that the tradition would shift from Judaism, to what would become Christianity.

As for Dante's Inferno, his point was not to tell people what was wrong, but to say "Hey, this is what we believe is wrong, and so if we commit these actions we must recognize that we will be punished accordingly." Or to make a more modern example: You drink underage. You know that it is illegal, so if you get punished, you 'deserve' it in a sense. I think that was more of his meaning.

Almost everything can be excused as a translation or copying issue. I got that phrase from the King James (British version, I actually have an 1860 edition) Bible which I think is regarded as being fairly accurate, though the origional hebrew or even better "goddish" (whatever language god thinks in) would be more accurate obviously. Anyway; even if it is just the ten commandments most of that stuff; and the punishments that go with them are pretty messed up anyway without ven having to go into leviticus and all the other goodies.

@Dante. I don't quite follow, but I read the Comodies a fair few years ago in S2 so my memory of them isnt the best. It sounds like your saing his point was "Doing Wrong has Consequences" which I consider almost a universal truth but I think you have to exam the consequence themselves as part of justice and the theme and in that regard I take issue with his ideas. Certainly some areas are good; differnet levels of crime and such but in many ways I disagree with the order. Maybe I missed the "deeper point" I examined it more form a history perspective first time round.

Well, maybe not translation, might just be a misunderstanding. However, in regards to Dante, basically what he is saying is, as you said, "Doing Wrong has Consequences". The idea is that the 'messed up' punishments fit the crimes perfectly. In the poem Dante confronts the issue of the "messed up" part. He recognizes that we don't have to like them, but they are the 'perfect' blind justice. "Doing Wrong has Consequences" is basically the moral, even if the consequences arn't pleasant. The order of the circles has to do with Dante's time and place. There is practically civil war in Florence, and the other Italian cities, so Dante hates the neutral and the traitors. His big thing with Fraud (at least the theft kind) has to do with his location: he's in the trade hub of the Mediterranean, so he would hate theft. Overall, Hell is a pretty messed up place, but, at least in Dante's view, that is the way it is meant to be, and for good reason.

I would agree with that. As I said I studied it more from the historical side, which made it interesting to see the things you mentioned; fraud being so highly placed due to Upper Italy being a center of commerce was one of the things in particular I fund very interesting. In regards to what it can teach us about Justice though I think its limited. I don't like to believe in a "blind" Justice. I prefer to think of Justice as being able to see very clearly, and rationalise and think clearly as well and yet still wielding vengence fairly and justly not inspite of her ability to see and think but because of it. Her judgment is not affected by things like skin colour or race but the purpose of Justice is to Wield Vengance, not to unleash it.

This is just my own opinion, but I feel that the Inferno is not about how Justice should or could be used. The idea is merely accepting Justice, which at times is hard. As you know, Dante is shocked to find his mentor in the Seventh Circle, but comes to accept it as appropriate. I do think that my statement of a 'blind' justice was a poor choice of words, but what I meant was more like you said: perfect justice is rational and all that good stuff, and puts out punishments accordingly. To Dante, these are appropriate punishments. To him "punishments" does not equal vengeance, it is more of the continuation of the path one walked in life. Basically: You dug your own grave, now sleep in it.

This is why Atheists hate religious people.

This is why Atheists hate religious people.[/quote:3l4bbi2j]

Kinda an overstatement, i highly doubt an entire group of people hate all religious people. (which some Atheist i know practice Buddhism)