Did the French make a right call?

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by D3adtrap, Apr 12, 2011.

?

Are you in fauvor of this new law?

Yes 0 vote(s) 0.0%
No 20 vote(s) 100.0%
  1. CheFlegel New Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Message Count:
    3,439
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It is really disturbing that 9 people said yes. Really disturbing.
  2. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,188
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    www.Twitter.com/d3adtrap

    We have saying "Massa maan tavalla" witch loosely means that every country has its norms and they have to be respected. In this case if you go to France you have to respects their laws. You dont go to your friends house and just take all his/her food and everything.


    @Christian debate thingy

    My point. What matters is today, and while all sides have crazy nut jobs muslims have most fundamentalists active, for now at least.


    I really dont mind the muslims for I have muslim friends, but I believe this is reasonable law
  3. RonaldRaygun Futuristic Weapon Wielder/Commie Hunter

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,397
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    123
    You have to realize that the women who wear the burka or the niqab "by choice" have been indoctrinated from childhood by men to believe they deserve no respect otherwise.
    Arresting them or otherwise sanctioning them now would just be victim abuse. France chose a pretty shitty, reactionary way to deal with it.
  4. BurGroBro Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,319
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    So, I am not allowed to wear that sexy and stylish scarf I got from France IN France?

    Yeah, this is an example of othering of Muslums in Europe. I have my opinion on some of the coverings of muslums being sexist, some of them are just as a sing of respect just as the head covering that Jews wear is respect to God or the fact that I shake someone's hand is a sing of respect or removing my hat inside is repsectfull to the person owning my house.

    That law is Racist, but so are the French...wait...im French...
  5. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    3,949
    Likes Received:
    633
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Tempe, Az
    That's a pretty pejorative and patronizing view though. Your basically saying Islam is a false consciousness if you're trying to argue that the women suffer from a false sense of personal choice and intentions.
  6. CheFlegel New Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Message Count:
    3,439
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you are going to argue that then anyone else could say the same thing about Christianity as a whole because of the witch hunts.
  7. Chelsea366 Retired Moderator

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    6,865
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Gensokyo
    The witch hunts are a thing of the past. We don't still burn witches at the stake, however a lot of Muslim women are still treated badly.
  8. lukakiwi Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,353
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Im not a liberal or anything. but i am against it. The reasons have already been stated and are prety obvious. I mea, how would the french like it if we baned berets.
  9. RonaldRaygun Futuristic Weapon Wielder/Commie Hunter

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,397
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    123
    You have to remember that very few women in islam actually wear the niqab (I think there is a grand total of about *gasp* 70 women who wear it in Spain).
    Yes, I don't think those women would wear a tent if it wasn't for a bunch of patriarchal assholes indoctrinating them into believing they're crap for not wearing it.
  10. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    3,949
    Likes Received:
    633
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Tempe, Az
    Many women in western countries choose to cover themselves because to them it embodies feminine empowerment. To them it presents them as women and not objects, because men are forced to look at their personality rather then their desirable lady parts... I think it is categorically wrong to deny someone their right to express their love and solidarity with their religion, because it isn't in line with your own conception of a national identity.
  11. RonaldRaygun Futuristic Weapon Wielder/Commie Hunter

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,397
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    123
    I fail to see how that has anything to do with the reality of the abuse those women go through at the hands of their patriarchal overlords.
    Also, I didn't deny anything to anyone
    Edit: if you read my original comment you'll see I condemned what France did
  12. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    3,949
    Likes Received:
    633
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Tempe, Az
    Were not talking about Saudi Arabia here, were talking about France. France denied women the right to express themselves which is really whats at the core of the debate here. You can't really make the argument that every single Muslim women has been categorically abused into submission by the male segment of society. Again the broader focus is on western society, but were specifically talking about the French.
  13. Tacotruck1166 New Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Message Count:
    400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oakdale, California Cowboy Capital of the World!
    I'm in favor. Maybe other euro-peon countries will actually make attempts to preserve their culture.
  14. RonaldRaygun Futuristic Weapon Wielder/Commie Hunter

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,397
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    123
    I realized I should've clarified a bit and I edited my post a little (a little too late)

    I repeat, I condemned what the French did in my original post...

    More editing:

    I never said that, I was referring specifically to the women who wear the niqab/burka and even then I wasn't generalizing my statement to all of them, who knows maybe a few of them grew up in France to secular parents and thought it would be really neat if they dressed like ninjas all the time or whatever the situation may be. But that's not going to be the case most of the time, it is because of the male chauvinists and it is like that regardless of what country they live in.
  15. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,188
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    www.Twitter.com/d3adtrap
    Out of france's few million muslisms estimated 2000-6000 wear this thingy.


    I dont think this law is racist, for it is not targeted against muslims. Just forbidding to (completly) cover your face in public. If it is racist I cant understand it just like I wont ever understand how it feels to be called nigger or something else, witch in one way is sad.
  16. BurGroBro Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,319
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Viewing this on a historic perspective, the Europeans always treated Muslums very badly. It is something called othering which continues to this day.
  17. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,188
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    www.Twitter.com/d3adtrap
    From historic perspective, both have killed each other in tens of thousands. Except for slavs, who had its own wars against catholic church, so not all europeans were in against muslims
  18. Maddog95 Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Message Count:
    572
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Belgium
    Actually the Slavic people were just as bad. Especially when the Ottomans also started creeping unto the Balkans.


    But more to the point.
    Yes, I do believe it's the right call. Currently in Belgium we've got 2 generation.
    The 1th generation which adopted moderately well to our laws and where we hardly have any issues with.
    The 2nd generation is trying to adopt to a ever changing society while being taught the old school values and having trouble mixing them.
    So now, when a girl walks down a street we've got groups of 4 or 5 shouting "whore!!' because she wears a skirt and a top, but meanwhile most music they listen to is US rap.
    There's also a vicious circle going on of mistrust followed by rage followed by erratic acts followed by mistrust and so on which is complicating things.

    So, basicly, a lot of secular problems are happening in Europe with the Muslim population more like 'merging in an American' way instead of actually integrating.
    Maybe applying certain laws to drag them into the 21th century and out of their religious influence might make things better?
  19. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,188
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    www.Twitter.com/d3adtrap


    But they werent religious wars. FYI: German muslims girls are committing alot of suicides beacause of this shitty sircle
  20. JosefVStalin El Presidente

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,867
    Likes Received:
    5,818
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    B.C. Canada
    To contemplate this issue I put myself behind Rawls’ veil of ignorance to remove all the subjective issues about religion and women’s rights as I could and think about this as objectively as possible. In the end from behind the veil of ignorance I decided that provided that it is entirely the women’s choice then she has every right to wear the hijab because natural goods should not matter in society’s construction.

    Edit: I also have a deal with myself that everytime I bring up Rawls I buy myself a coke.

Share This Page