Does Suffering Bring Positive Change

declared war on the soviets.

I'm pretty sure the Palestinians didn't exist back in Abrahamic times and such. Also, being able to drive away another race from a region does not automatically entitle you to it.

The jews left 2000 years before....

You would know all about driving people from their land wouldn't you?

The Palestinians have Jordan, O.k case dismissed.

No, I'm pretty sure in 12 AD there were Jews there. There may be some you remember, like, I don't know - Jesus?

If you wanna go by whos land it was first and who pushed who out, technically it was the Jews who had the land long before the Palestinians and Arabs came.

Ironically the Jews didn't leave. They were deported after a failed revolt...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

Suffering is an incredibly general term. I don't think we can say that because "the world has benefited from ______ because people then realized ______ " is just saying that we've learned from our mistakes. I mean that is basically saying that the Holocaust was great because we learned that we could actually help people. Even though at the exact same time the USA were doing similar things to the Japanese in the northwest, and there has always been discrimination African Americans until the 50's and 60's. And yet people are still homophobic, and crack jokes about Jews and other races. Of course those events weren't as violent as the Holocaust, but there have been many genocides and religious wars, so we can't really say we as humans have completely changed or learned from our mistakes.

Mass murder of millions of people =/= putting people in relocation camps.

It depends on what lessons they can teach if that lesson is taught to other generations then i would consider
"positive".

That is not what I'm saying. I'm saying it is discrimination against another race/culture. The Germans killed millions yes, but that doesn't mean us holding thousands of Japanese shouldn't be criticized.

No, actually the dinosaurs had the land first.

Logic rules again.

Fucking meteor.

Biggest mass murderer in history... Asshole.

If we follow the logic tha suffering brings positive change we would be thinking along the same lines as jigsaw (the movie character from SAW) . His logic was that by putting his "currupt" victims through his various tests changed them in a possitive way if they survived. Effectivly making them better people. Now if you have seen the SAW movies you will know what I'm talking about. Suffering does not bring positiv change, it just brings change that is usaly better than the suffering but not neccisarily better than what was pre-suffering.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't avoid suffering, but that it is a natural part of life(of varying degrees) and that it brings progress to humanity as a whole.

Have we as humans really progressed? We have in a technological stand point yes, but not in a mental standpoint or a historical stand point. We repeat our mistakes over and over again. Of course suffering and cruel actions may bring some sort of epiphany that what was happening was wrong, but in a short amount of time it most likely will be forgotten. When I say forgotten, I don't mean that we've erased it from our memories. I mean that people just don't care anymore. When you see someone getting bullied at school or someone getting mugged in a street alley, do we really help? We like to say that we will help, but we really don't because who the hell wants to get involved or we like to blend in with the society. Many countries could have saved Jews during the Evian conference, but only the Dominican Republic accepted the Jews. Every other country refused when they could have held the many of them. You're right when you said that we can't avoid suffering, but has there really been any progress?

You should watch the show "What would you do?"

me?