Napleon, Hitler and a Russian Winter

lol i find your sarcasm to my sarcasm very funny.[/quote:17nvsj0w]
Most people do.
Ok guys we should probably get back on topic.

I think neither really stood a chance. There just isn't enough of a campaign season....

It seems with russia the best you can do is take a portion of it and then defend it untill russia is like fuck it just keep it, well unless your Mongolia empire then you can take Russia the good old fashion way.

Well i don't think the Mongols count much as they had an advantage with the fact Russia wasn't unified at the time of their invasion. Also they had one of the first fully mobile armed forces of the world in thise days being made up completely of horsemen whilst in Europe and most other areas infantry and Knights were used but were useless against a group of guys on horses charging at you firing arrows only to retreat back before you can attack them properly.

But on the topic of a campaign season with Russia I find that an odd argument because in the end of it the season is an alright length. Hitler got bogged down having to tidy up Italy's mess in the Balkans before he could move on Russia so his invasion date kept being put further and further into the year until he had to invade when he did due to the Russian increase in supplies ,like Deathtrap put forward, and due to the coming of the Russian winter before he would arrive at Moscow.

Nazi party views caused the early invasion of Russia. How sad...

Russia is not zombie, Russia is bear! big furry grizzly!
everyone knows you can't just attack a grizzly and expect to win once you've made it bleed, because when that happens, the bear fights back! and wins :lol:

Unless its world war one then Russia just fights its self and loses.

But back then it wasn't a bear...it was some sort of birdie.

But back then it wasn't a bear...it was some sort of birdie.
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Like this, GOD SAVE THE TSAR

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Both Napoleon and Hitler were to hungry for power and conquest, so they just bit off a little more than they could chew with Russia. If both of them would have just waited to build up their armies (and if Germeny would have given themselves time to implement some of their advanced technologies) then conquering Russia would've become a possible goal. I'm not saying that Russia would have been easy to conquer (not by a long shot) but they could've have set themselves up better for their invasions.

Hitler needed to wait, however it depends on how long the soviets where willing to wait with new evidence suggestion they where preparing to attack first, Napoleon on the other hand needed to never attack at all because he went into Russia with the best trained army in the world and left with nothing.

Hitler couldn't wait, every minute he delayed his attack on the USSR, they were getting stronger, because after the Winter War, they saw their army was shit, so they started recovering their officer corps and developing their equipment, Hitler only succeeded all the way to the Caucasus was because he caught the Soviets with their pants down, half of the Red Army was still in East USSR and after they arrived, it was just a walk in the park for them.

The defeat of Hitler at the hands of Stalin and his red army was all bust certain, Hitler wouldn't wait because then he would be crushed by the waves of soviets (and also because he thought the soviets as weak and Jewish) and even if he went in there with proper equipment he had very little chance of winning still.

Basically what I said, but if Hitler attacked, let's say, 6 months earlier, he could have pulled this off, the only problem is that he was still invading France at the time, so he would have less troops and it would lead to a more concentrated front.

So Hitler was bound to lose no matter what, and really Hitler was lucky to take France.

You have to remember that 6 months before Barbarossa, the USSR was in no way able to fight and if Hitler could have invaded France as quickly as he did with Poland, he would still have time to call back his Western front troops and maybe reinforce his weak spots in the Eastern Front and at this time he could have already have a huge territory taken from the USSR, plus Romania and Hungary could help him in the Balkans. I don't know if this would have worked out, but it's just speculation. Btw, he should have taken Italy instead of allying with it.

Hmmm, I see, but really, there should have been a way for him to get the USSR, they can't be unbeatable.

What I mean by taking over Italy, is that he wouldn't have a real tough opponent to take, he would spare resources because he wouldn't be helping them to take over Greece, I don't know what the situation in Libya would become though.