Nazi Victory, Was it really possible?

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by Sokol-1, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    As I said earlier, I put the americans in there by mistake and no matter what, the Red Army was already regaining its strength, plus Hitler was still wasting resources in Greece, so if the Soviets attacked Hitler just as he was finishing up the French, he'd have no hope of winning.
  2. Leutenant_Germany Active Member

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    that is very true
  3. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Stupid French.
  4. The Evil Major Well-Known Member

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    My mind it would have been possible for the Axis to win the war.

    1. Yes the succes in Operation Seelöwe/Battle for Britain was crucial, Germans might have succeeded if the incompetent fatso morfinist named Hermann Göring and also Hitler had less say on the things: because of Hitler's impatienty Göring changed the strategy in battle for Britain from bombing the airforce bases (strategy that was crushing RAF) to the bombing of cities in hope to crush the fighting spirit of the Brits (wich did not happen). So if the Germans had gained air superiority, the rest would have gone rather smoothly, since the RN couldn't have stopped the invasion if the Germans had air superiority and enough bombers, and what I know the Brits didn't have a large army defending them so the Germans should just had to secure a bridgehead position and then they could have occupied Britain with relative ease.

    2. Rest of the War: I think that before Barbarossa the important thing was Italian performance (at least in Balkans).
    The succes of Operation Barbarossa would would (my mind) be quite dependent on preparation and luck. Let's say the Germans would have postponed the invasion till spring 1942, they would have had more time to prepare (winter equipment for example) and they could have had the time to conquer Moscow before the autumn rains would have made advancement slow. From that point forward it would have just required luck in battles and Stalin being overthrown (I don't think he would have surrendered).

    I rest my case (cuz I'm too tired).
  5. Leutenant_Germany Active Member

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    well if the royal navy sat on the english channel it would have been impossible to get across

    and about barborossa one of the reasons the operation failed was because he gave the soviets time to prepare so giving them another year and i dont think the germans would have made it past Kiev. and if the Soviets were imploying the 'scorched earth' policy the germans would still have trouble fighting the remanents of soviet forces and if they won in the east the wa in the west would still be a problem because hitler would still have to invade britain somehow and by that time they would have support from the US not to mention their air supirority over france and the channel
  6. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    But in the end, what really killed the Germans in the West was their inferiority in the air. If they would have had a big air fleet in 1944, they could have bombed the shit out of the troops in Normandy. I don't say the air troops would have single-handedly killed all invading English, but it would certainly make a difference.

    I agree. But that still doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't have attacked the CCCP in the first place. And it would be even better if the Japanese wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor, not that it would have made so much of a difference, though.
  7. The Evil Major Well-Known Member

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    First of all if the Germans had gained air superiority, it would have been really hard for the RN stop the invasion.
    Second my Barbarossa scenario was based on the German victory over Britain which would have caused the postponing of Barbarossa. And the defeat of Britain would have closed the western front (more men and equipment to east) and also it would mean that the US couldn't have done anything to Germany (assuming Japan attacked US=war) apart from trying to invade Britain. Also there wouldn't have been bombings on Germany which would have helped the German war effort.
    And I know that the russians would have had more time to prepare but so would the Germans (assuming Italy had done better in the Balkans).
    And as I said the succes of Operation Barbarossa was somewhat dependent on luck.
  8. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    The Russians wouldn't be able to prepare, because Stalin completely trusted Hitler for some reason.
  9. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the Russian export grain to Germany until operation Barbarossa began?
  10. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    They were modernizing the army to the German standards after the Winter War, plus they were recovering from the officer purge as well, that means a much stronger Red Army, that everyone saw during the end of 1942 and for the rest of the war.
  11. The Evil Major Well-Known Member

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    Well, Stalin knew that war with Germany was inevitable.

    And iron and other stuff important in war.
  12. Toast Well-Known Member

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    No he didn't. I think he didn't show his face for a week after the start of Barbarossa, and when he first made his speech that Germany had declared war, he sounded really stressed. Then there's other things like giving Germany weapons across the border secretly because the Allies prohibited it and the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
  13. The Evil Major Well-Known Member

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    I know that he did not expect the war to start so soon but he knew that it would start someday, and that's why he signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact to have the time to prepare for war, he didn't expect the Germans breaking it. It was a non-agression pact for 10 years.
  14. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    I have one source that says that at the beggining of the Operation Barbarossa, the Soviets were actually in an offensive formation line, so maybe Stalin himself was planning a war already, however I can't say that it is true because other sources say he was caught with his pants down and with no preparation whatsoever for an offensive. What we know is that Stalin was preparing for a war, be it against the Axis or the Allies.
  15. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Of course Stalin was preparing for war. Japan was already lauding it's dick around in the Khalkhin Gol and the USSR had it's arse kicked in the Winter War. The Red Army was in a bad state. I agree that war was inevitable and Stalin knew deep down that it was, but he really just picked the wrong man to trust. Stalin said that he doesn't trust anybody, "not even myself", but he certainly placed his faith in Hitler.
  16. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    The Soviet Union paid a very high price for their victory over the Axis; more than 20 million Soviets had been killed...
  17. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    Well he was a bit of a psycopath, so you never know.
    A note though, most casualties in the entire war were civilian and even though the Red Army did lose a very significant number of soldiers the Germans did lose almost the same number of men.
  18. Ingvar Well-Known Member

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    If Nazis did not start slaughtering innocent civilians of the Soviet union they could have conquered it,but since they did ,all people of the motherland have risen to fight the nazis and that is why they stood no chance.
  19. Leutenant_Germany Active Member

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    not even close
    1. german supply lines were stretched to the limit
    2. Hitler had not ordered any kind of winter equpment for his men
    3. the soviets had most a large quantity of their industrial power to siberia, so when the germans invaded the soviets still had a substantial amount of industry.
    i can see where you are coming from but even if the germans didnt kill people these things would still have brought them down also only the SS really killed people in a great number although there were some in the Wehrmact. the average german soldier didnt kill people for the hell of it most didnt even want to be there
  20. Karakoran Well-Known Member

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    Germany lost in the East because the USSR bled him out.

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