New colonies and a war on drugs

Think realistically here. The drinking and smoking age is not gonna get lowered any time soon, so the problem mentioned would still exist.

edit: Don't double post.

You don't think the US has been doing the very thing you suggest here for a long, long time? They have. They have been attacking them and waging this war on drugs but my point is you can never wipe that out, just like you can never stop people from illegally buying the drugs if that is their only option, they will always find a way. As you pointed out drug use is still pretty large, despite our war on drugs. The only way to stop that without giving alternatives is to have a government so invasive and large that they can literally track everything people do. As for my ideals, they do seem different than yours to a degree, we obviously do not agree at least on the matters in this thread. I believe you misread my communist statement though. Finally just admit you value human life, it's obvious that was a lie or you don't realize that you do. Otherwise you shouldn't care that drugs are harming people.

Do you guys have any idea why the drinking and smoking age is there??? Its because kids are not responsible enough for them. This is proven by the fact that you don't usually here about drunk 30 year olds killing people, but you often here about high and drunk teenagers killing people.

No, the US is not waging an effective war on drugs. They never directly attack the cartels. When I mean directly attack I mean predator drone strikes, smart bombs, special ops missions.

I value human life. I have been reflecting and I realize that was quite hypocritical of me. I tend to be inadvertantly hypocritical when I'm worked up about something. In any case, I have realized I find the idea of killing people for this as repelling as you do. That doesn't mean that I don't still have the opinion that this is the only way.[/quote]

Yes, I know, I didn't mean it in that way, though. Generally, the same principles apply to tobacco, alcohol and drugs. They have intoxicating effects, are addictive to some extent and can cause serious damage when used irresponsibly. Why only two of the three are legal beats me, especially when making them illegal has proven to be ineffective and in general a bad idea.

In Philly you hear about drunk 50 year olds killing not drunk teenagers...

Since when!!! The majority of crime in philly is caused by teenagers!!!

Okay, if you, or your parents, aren't capable of controlling a 12 and less year old child that's their own problem. Also, to answer your question, 2 things. 1) They can get it from family members if their family permits it. 2) if the family doesn't permit it, then they're parents should you know... parent them. and not allow them such substance. Also, the chances of a dealer even having marijuana after legalization to sell to little kids is very little, as 1) most kids dont even know what the stuff is by that age, let alone want to buy it, and 2) as said earlier, kids would be smart enough to get it for free from family then pay for it from a dealer. 3) because of no profit, not only would dealer sales decrease, but dealer numbers themselves would. So, hitherto, it would be very rare to see a kid addicted to any harmful drugs, and, with the number of dealers decreased, legalizing marijuana will solve many problems, for a long, long time. And your imaginatively silly thought of people going into LSD is just silly. People will look at a person high on marijuana as a person who is just abit happier, still fully conversation-able and capable of thought...perhaps a rainbow everynow and then, but nothing big or harmful. People would look at a person high on LSD and see a man going crazy, loosing all sense of right and wrong, being scared of things that aren't there, so on. As you can see, people arent going to even WANT to do LSD if they watch the effects of it. Purely, purely negative. Marijuana on the other hand, is almost compeltey harmless. The only harm i think someone can really get from it is lung cancer from smoking too much (which there are ways around, such as eating) or being allergic to it. And look at Europe, where marijuana is purchasable in the netherlands and drinking age is lowered (such as in germany). much, much lower deathrates by any form of drug consumption all around.

Even in Detroit, hell-hole capital of all of Michigan, you hear more about 20+yr olds doing much more crime than teenagers.

Merging double posts, please don't keep doing that as it is against the rules. - Chelsea

That is petty crime, like shoplifting and vandalism. Not actual serious crime. I'd also like to see the evidence for this.

What do you mean kids won't know about it at that age??? I already explained that kids as young as 12 are doing drugs in my town!!! And I live in a suburban white middle class neighborhood! Oh yeah, and apparently according to you a responsible parent gives their still developing children Marijuana. Yeah, so fucking great. Oh, and by the way, have you ever seen a person high on weed? They're not smiling. They're hacking up their lungs and wandering into the middle of main roads. But, you know, at least they will be slightly happier when they become a splatter on the road.

Edit: Clayman, don't double post!
And here you go Toast:
http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/Blueprint.pdf
Its an older source, but crime rates in Philly are doing nothing more than going up.

Maybe it wont help 12 year olds determined to get high that much but will it hurt them? Not any more than keeping it illegal. You are assuming that everyone who does pot will automatically jump to harsher things but I don't believe this to be the case. Still if they become addicted to harsher things the answer is providing free rehab and counseling but nothing more than that. I advocate legalizing only non harmful drugs and it is certainly not more of a slippery slope than increasing punishment again and again, keeping the only source for them to go to illegal and increasing our commitment to never ending wars we can't win. We can take down one organization, another will spring up, always as long as there is demand for it.

My friend snorted that fun dip shit. He said it really burned his nose and he was literally crying.

Pussy.

Another one will spring up, this is true. However, the cartels require manpower to export and grow drugs. And manpower will be scared off if it knows it can stay home and make an honest living rather then work for the cartels and be killed by US armed forces.

Not everyone I'm sure, but many yes. I will have to look up some statistics. But from what I've experienced at my school, around half move on to more potent drugs.

You guys act like I said labor camp on the spot. Remember that 3 years of mandatory free rehab and counseling is quite a long time. And even then they are not killed. They are sent to a labor camp. A labor camp is not a concentration camp. It is a guarded factory in which the workers are treated fairly and give back to society. They are not totally cut off from all society. Hell, they could have visitors if they want.

EDIT: LOL Lighthouse. Its funny cause my friend did the EXACT same thing at our lunch. And then another table saw him snorting but didn't realize it was fun dip. Needless to say, it was absolutely hilarious.

So now you tone down your ideas after being chastised?

So, where does this hatred of da wacky tobacky stem from? Did a girl you like reject you and is now dating a pothead?

Dude I hear about teenagers killing each other every day on the news and I am not exaggerating when I say everyday. Every other day I hear 50 year olds killing each other as well. Its pretty bad in Philly and Camden.

edit: a girl he's friends with is a pothead.

You don't seem to understand how conditions are in prisons and detention facilities. You can say oh they would be treated fairly but the matter is they probably would not and forced labor in and of itself is not treating someone right or fairly. Most of these detention facilities do not care about the inmates. I also disagree that they would just go off working honest jobs if we turned up the heat, we have killed many in our war on drugs already. They know it's a dangerous job and I imagine once you're in, getting out isn't that easy. Plus who says all of them have a choice in joining anyways? Only dealing and driving under the influence should land you in prison, if a person is determined to harm their own health it is not our business to throw him in labor camps or deport him or throw him in prison no matter how much rehab he has failed.

?

You don't think that some of the people joining these criminal organizations don't have much choice in the matter? Maybe there wasn't honest work for them, they may have been forced in.

I have not changed my ideas once actually. I still maintain my original post.

Considering Philly and Camden are the highest crime rates in the country (or some of the highest not sure). And a bunch of them have tried pot. Two of them smoke whenever they can.

Well from my limited knowledge on cartels, I know it is next to impossible to get out, but you get in on your own free will. Once you get in contact with them however, I know it is extremely hard to get away. Again though, my knowledge is limited, so you are probably right.