Socialists and the fetish of welfare states.

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by Lenin Cat, Dec 15, 2011.

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  1. MayorEmanuel Do not weep, for salvation is coming.

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    If you really want to get several people together and form your own risk pool you have the right to do that. But I still want to use the government as a tool to elevate the suffering of workers. Sitting around praying for a cataclysm ending the capitalist system is a pipe dream.
    MayorEmanuel, Dec 17, 2011
    #21

  2. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    It's badass.

    Ps. We are still a very strong capitalist economy, nothing to do with socialism what so ever...
    D3adtrap, Dec 17, 2011
    #22
    Warburg likes this.

  3. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    I've heard that the taxes and VAT's are pretty high...
    battleearl, Dec 17, 2011
    #23

  4. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Yeah that's the only thing I'm not too happy about. I totally support the spending, but just the fact that it comes from us is bullshit. We could cut defense spending etc. and behold: we can lower taxes.

    http://www.worldwide-tax.com/finland/finland_tax.asp
    D3adtrap, Dec 17, 2011
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  5. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's pretty high: http://www.skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=1880327&vId=0
    But then again, there are a lot of benefits from the system. One example would be that we actually get paid to go to college/university.
    Warburg, Dec 17, 2011
    #25

  6. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Care to explain more in detail on what -may I assume- is student benefits?
    D3adtrap, Dec 17, 2011
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  7. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    If you're 18 and you are getting some sort of education you get paid money by the state. The amount of money is influenced by several factors. You don't get as much if you live at home compared to a person who has moved out. You get more if your parents don't earn a lot. etc. etc.

    Edit: You get about 1000$ a month
    You can also borrow some money for free.
    Warburg, Dec 17, 2011
    #27

  8. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Is education free down there?

    EDIT: Or is it available only after upper secondary?
    D3adtrap, Dec 17, 2011
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  9. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    So what your saying is that if Capitalism is done right like the Nordic model is far better then U.S capitalism and Socialism.
    Viking Socrates, Dec 17, 2011
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  10. Lenin Cat Well-Known Member

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    No warburg, my vote doesn't matter because its just a vote. The real decider of elections is campaign financing, and the real decider of policy making is lobbying. Protesting can disrupt this process.

    I dont want free this or that, I want the COMPLETE LIBERATION of the ruled, of the oppressed, of the exploited. Abolish patriarchy, Abolish capitalism, Abolish the state.
    Lenin Cat, Dec 17, 2011
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  11. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    Oh their is the Stalin Quote that fits so well right in with that.

    One step at a time, Abolish Earth.[/quote]
    Viking Socrates, Dec 17, 2011
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  12. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    In Denmark? Indeed. You only get student benefits after you're 18 years old, but all education is free except ofc. private.
    There are also a lot of discounts(art, movies, food, public transport etc.) if you're a student.
    Warburg, Dec 17, 2011
    #32

  13. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    All we have done is regulated the industry, put out the most extensive social security and government runs allot of shit like education, that it provides for every citizen. So in a way yes, tho in the core it is the same shit you have there.

    @warbug

    Have any links so I can see the entire pichture? And when you search Student benefits on wikipedia, it does not say anything about Denmark.
    D3adtrap, Dec 17, 2011
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  14. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    I've always liked the Nordic way of doing things, it seems less corruptible and more fair to the people giving them needs that everyone requires (Which is why Finland's education system is the best in the world as well as the fact Finnish news sites are way more trustable then united states news)

    I say we infuse all the Nordic countries and make Super Scandinavia Kalmar union.
    Viking Socrates, Dec 17, 2011
    #34

  15. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Well Finland is 2nd least corrupt country in the world as of 2011 and we give everyone an equal chance. Difference to socialists being that we do not give equal results. How ever we have safety net and tons of programs and organizations to bounce a poor soul back up if one wishes a second chance. There are no doubt allot of problems still left, but I have full confidence that we can over come them.
    D3adtrap, Dec 17, 2011
    #35

  16. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    I like your model of doing things more and more every day. But what are some problems.
    Viking Socrates, Dec 17, 2011
    #36

  17. Warburg Well-Known Member

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    Well we are a pretty small country:eek: I can't find anything is English so I guess not...
    I can tell you that we offer more benefits to our students than Sweden.
    A vote is a very important thing and a huge privilege. Don't throw it away just because you think it doesn't matter. Lobbying is for the most part bad, but that doesn't mean votes don't matter.

    oh yes I guess we all want *epic voice* COMPLETE LIBERATION!!! but there is a little thing called reality. You should really try taking a look at it sometimes.(yeah I'm a bit mean)
    Let's take Denmark.(my home country)
    Who is oppressed? Who is exploited? What patriarchy is there? Why is the state bad?
    Warburg, Dec 17, 2011
    #37

  18. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Depends on what you see as problems. For me it is healthcare. We are 17th on it and no wonder. I have full confidence on quality of it, but state does not give it enough funding that results in lest jobs. This means that there are quite a long waiting lines, which is unacceptable. Sure you can go to private hospital, but that is not perferable. In other words I'd increase health care spending to get back the jobs we lost in 2008s market crash.

    I would also lower taxes. I 100% support all the necessary spending, but I wont make people pay for stuff, that could get money from else where (Military & cultural cuts)

    Reform VALVIRA. They are in middle of a scandal as it is and their head should get fired and entire shit re structured. Tobacco laws by this agency are getting ridiculous.

    Minor law reforms such as legalize weed, reform educational system (stuff that happens in class itself, nothing outside) etc. Also a Gypsie & Somalians have to be dealth with one way or another.

    @Warbug

    Well a 1000$ is quite allot (400€?) We get Student Benefits since 17 and they grow as your turn 18 & 21. They have many factors to them, but on average they are between 200€- 300€ a month. We also get allot of discounts as stundents, such as -50% on public transportation. (BTW: They want to make public transportation free for under 18 years old) On top of that there are housing support etc. Education is free, meals at school are free, school housing is free and books are free. School buss, penn & paper is free trough primary school.

    But if you get 400€ month & education is free, that is quite cool.
    D3adtrap, Dec 17, 2011
    #38

  19. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    It seems as though you really need to cut back on your military spending and focus on more domestic matters like Education, Health to keep it good and regulated.

    Speaking of health care what country has the best: I heard France and Japan do.
    Viking Socrates, Dec 17, 2011
    #39

  20. pottman Well-Known Member

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    What is your grand plan to liberate us all?
    pottman, Dec 17, 2011
    #40
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