The GREAT DEBATE of should U.S OF A bring back troops from Afghanistan

Wrong. And unlike you I have evidence. From the master himself, Noam Chomsky:

http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/2652/noam_chomsky_my_reaction_to_os/

And Kali, would you say your views are in league with Fascist foreign policy?

Nope, I would definitely not say that.

How would you describe your foreign policy views? I know you want the US to maintain its control, but would you want the US to expand it hegemony? Even with illegal wars of aggression? I presume you must've been thrilled with the US-Iraq War of Aggression, no? Some estimates reach a million dead in the US-Iraq War of Aggression, is the human cost of illegal wars worth it to expand hegemony?

How is it a war on aggression when a terrorist organization leading a country refuses to hand over the guy that admitted to being the mastermind behind 9/11 and btw was already a labeled terrorist, because "they want evidence". What more evidence could they have wanted? You know very well they were not going to hand over Bin Laden regardless.

Sly, have you given up on debating with me? My posts remain unanswered! Could it be that I am so infinitely above your level of intelligence that you cannot begin to counter my arguments, and simply stupefied by them? Because you obviously haven't acknowledged defeat yet, while at the same time neglecting to defend your views.

I acknowledge that we agree to disagree. O .0

In other words, you have no valid arguments against me, and acknowledge defeat.
Victory is mine!
And none of Sly's arguments in favor of continuing the war are valid anymore, as I have already successfully countered them.

Congratz I guess.

None of my arguments against you are valid.

None of your arguments against anyone are valid, as long as you tried them on me first, because I already proved you wrong. You can't be right just because it's a different person. It's not a competition, it's about facts.
And the fact is, you can't support your own arguments.

Well considering my argument against D3vil which I am guessing is what you are referring to by meaning I can no longer argue against anybody, is about the war not being a war on aggression, it does not matter I can still continue making a valid argument against him.

Actually shaw it is our fight, everything we have worked for, all the sacrifces we have made, would be null if we just up and left. The Afghani Goverment is not yet ready to stand on its own two feet(mostly due incompetance,inexperiance and economics) , and without our support ,could quite possibly, be overthrown by the taliban( who would start harbouring al quadea again, this time with all the modern military equipment we gave the government) or fall under the sphere of one of it's neighbors.
Many of the afghan population actually support us, how do think we have been able to elimate so many insurgents thus far? We gain the support of afghan villages and especially tribal elders and who then help us track down insurgents. If the whole goddamn nation was against us, do really think we would have been able to stay thier this long.

What the hell is this shaw, these people are not fucking cavemen, believe it or not before the US came they had seen guns and tanks.

Not everyone in the nation is a religious extremist, as you seem to thinkt they all want to die for allah and kill infidels.

And finally we should care because have invested so much in this already, it would be a complete waste if we just abandoned everything and the let a country fall apart. Not only would we lose an ally in one of the most unstable regions in the world, but the afghan people would suffer greatly. We have set up a forward thinking democracy, which is rare in that region of the world, It would be stupid to just abadon it before we make sure it can survive on it's own.

To add to Spartacus's argument I am gonna reiterate that the Afghani people are better off in their current situation than they ever were under Taliban rule. More and more Afghani people are starting to realize this. The Taliban is declining no matter how you look at it.

@ Sparticus
After reading your post I think we disagree because we hold different values and desire different results. I dislike the war based on the idea that America should only protect Americans, and that other nations problems should not be ours. That we should not wage foreign wars and should no longer bother ourselves with the problems of other nations. That people have the right to their own future. You're seeing it as a war of maintaining global American hegemony and even of moral responsibility. Which is not something I would agree with. I do not believe that we have a responsibility to help the Afghani people and I do not believe that we should honor the lives of dead soldiers of the war by continuing it in their name. And I fully understand how we have been able to make such great and victorious gains in the war. I was speaking specifically from the point of view of Afghani's living in contested regions, and of those with sympathy for the Taliban.

And I realize that they are not cavemen, but, for example, have you ever seen Restrepo? Do you think the people in the high mountains and in the deserts, where the majority of the action takes place now, had seen a modern military force before us? Probably not.

I do not think that they are all religious extremists, but I do believe that most of them are deeply religious (remember the "burn a Qu'ran day" protests?) and religious extremists can use this to sway people to their side. Common folk are notoriously easy to be attracted to dangerous rulers.

And again, it shouldn't be our problem what happens in Afghanistan, we have our own things going on.

@Sly
Of course they're better off, the Taliban led one of the worst, most conservative, and most dangerous regimes of modern times. But again, why should I care? And the fact is, the Taliban can only now survive with the support of the people, and right now they gain all that support from people unhappy with the conflict plaguing their nation. And of course they are declining, we are kicking their asses. But we will always have enemies in Afghanistan so long as we are there.

I'm an advocate of the status quo more or less.

I once wished to overthrow the Status quo, but now I like it the way it is if not a little change to it if any.

Wrong. Al-Qaeda didn't lead the country, the Taliban did.

They did not refuse. Can't any of you guys read? I posted a CNN link no less explaining that they offered to extradite him in exchange for evidence. That isn't outlandish. That's the common way to deal with extradition. So no, I don't agree that we knew they wouldn't cooperate because they weren't given the chance. The US could've presented evidence, the Taliban could've extradited bin Laden. The US could've presented evidence, the Taliban could not have extradited bin Laden. The US DIDN'T present evidence, the Taliban didn't have a chance to extradite him.

I don't think so, I think they were talking about a statement made by Obama in response to bin Laden's assassination (I'd recommend you read articles in full). In any case, I couldn't give two shits about that paper, it's about what Chomsky said and he's absolutely right.

Explain how the FBI head only believed it was hatched in Afghanistan then? Not exactly the concrete, cast-iron evidence you claim.
And your points about various countries agreeing with the US position is irrelevant. The US didn't present evidence to the Afghans because it felt it didn't need or want to. It is the hegemon, and if the hegemon says extradite with no evidence required you must cooperate. Otherwise you're invaded and occupied for 10 years. Illegally.

@Kali & Viking - you guys scare me.

The Taliban is practically a terrorist organization. I was not referring to Al Quaeda.

What more evidence do they need than Al Quaeda claiming responsibility?

Yes. Its called the Soviet Union.

@Sly
Of course they're better off, the Taliban led one of the worst, most conservative, and most dangerous regimes of modern times. But again, why should I care? And the fact is, the Taliban can only now survive with the support of the people, and right now they gain all that support from people unhappy with the conflict plaguing their nation. And of course they are declining, we are kicking their asses. But we will always have enemies in Afghanistan so long as we are there.[/quote]

Pretty sure both bin Laden and the Taliban denounced the attacks. Where's the evidence that bin Laden claimed responsibility? And even if what you said is true, what would stop the US providing evidence and extraditing him? Nothing. Nothing stopped them. They just had no intention of following the law and customary international relations.

Does CBC work for you he did take responsibility.