The USSR under Trotsky?

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by VladimirGLenin, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    Trotsky got exactly what he deserved an ice pick to the head.
  2. SovietEmpireUSSR Well-Known Member

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    Trotsky was pretty serious on his intentions, as stated in his permanent revolution conception. Although the man in some's opinion was a egotistical, charming orator, and to some extent these people are right.

    In power, would he appeal more to the proletariat of the country, as well as the peasantry class, of course. He had similar ambitions like that of Stalin, but what split them two apart was the constant bashing of who had the better theoretical breakthroughs, who's theories were plausible and could emulate into practice. Trotsky had real intentions of spreading the revolution to Europe, furthermore, expanding globally, eventually the planet being under the new order of socialism, not communism, because that is latter stage that was needed to be completed after the transitional period of socialism.

    As I adhere to Marxism-Leninism, I don't however situate myself, or have any real relations with Trotskyism or in contrary of that of Stalinism. I strongly uphold the belief that both have contributed to Marxist theory, both have played tremendous roles during the instigation of the uprisings in Russia, which eventfully led to the successful accomplishment of overthrowing the bourgeois backed provisional government, and then of course the troubled times of the civil war, fortunately however the Red Army managed to beat back the imperial agents of the white army and the imperialist western powers. All this greatly succeeded in the grand time of establishing a experimental Marxist (socialist) state. So, give your hats out to both the Trotskyist and Stalinist followers within the Bolshevik element in contributing well during that period and then after.

    Although, Trotsky does stand out as the lesser evil of the two, I mean, Stalin is constantly demonized, and the whole apparent speculation that he murdered millions directly and indirectly through the signing of death orders to failed economic policies is plainly absurd, and counter-productive to look for real evidence of what ACTUALLY happened during his reign of power. But, as this is not coherent and doesn't share any correlation with the topic at hand, we shall leave this out of the equation for a suitable purpose another time. Before going on the defense, where was I with Trotsky, oh yes. The man was seen as the lesser evil in many's eyes, a intellectual that would of promptly set forth economic and industrial transformation in a excessive way, true in the slightest, but highly debatable however.

    In exile, Trotsky wrote his opposition stance on the signing of the Nazi-Soviet pact (Molotov-Ribbentrop pact) he saw this as a betrayal to socialism and more importantly the betrayal of Lenin's Bolshevik revolution. Although you have to keep in mind, the Soviet Union was the last nation to get into diplomatic talks with Nazi Germany, the last country to actually agree with a short-term pact with the National Socialists in Germany. Stalin, in all his power wanted to focus his attentions on trying to get a sense of relief out of the western capitalist nations by coming into talks with them, because he knew Hitler and the Nazis were a big threat to Europe and the world. And it eventually became the truth, the Nazis started the second world war. Trotsky was covertly supporting the fascists, he wanted Stalin's system to come crashing down which would of spilled the end of the hopes and dreams of achieving socialism.

    In overall, Trotsky was an enemy of Stalin, but as many of you aren't aware, he was an enemy of Leninism as well. (Evidence contained in the book 'Leninism or Trotskyism?') Trotsky surrmarized in one term, revisionist.

    Note: I'm not a Stalinist, I merely defend him by name and what he contributed, as well, I do admit he had flaws, like any other Marxists revolutionaries in history as well.
  3. VladimirGLenin Well-Known Member

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    Thats quite an answer there, but it does clear some questions of mine about Trotsky
  4. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    I used to be Stalin's rival. Then I took an ice pick to the head.
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  5. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    What a swine Trotsky is....left phases and a bloc with the right...he ought to be exposed-- V.Lenin
  6. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    Weren't they best friends?
  7. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    In Trotsky's imagination maybe.
  8. VladimirGLenin Well-Known Member

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    Probably, but then again who did Lenin like more? Stalin or Trotsky?
  9. SovietEmpireUSSR Well-Known Member

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    There is some indication to whether Lenin favored Stalin more than Trotsky, although there was a short period earlier on that indicated that Lenin favored Bukharin a lot. Getting off flat, Stalin was more liked and trustworthy, Trotsky fell short, in particular, because of his permanent revolution. No matter the amount of times it was refuted and seen as a flawed theory, he still went on in his egotistical mental approach and decided to ignore the claims that he was wrong on everything.

    I could provide you with further reading material of some stated evidence that Lenin favored Stalin over Trotsky. Sorry, I've got a tendency to be bias for Stalin all the time, judging from the pictures I have of him and all. It's virtually impossible for me to take this as a neutral standpoint.

    Here some references, truthfully saying this has been written by Joseph Stalin himself. I'll find some more evidence though.
    http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/11_19.htm

    I'll provide you with both of the accounts, from a Trotsky viewpoint also.
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1932/12/lenin.htm

    Seen as a more Stalin side to it.
    http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv7n2/blandlt.htm
  10. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    Glory to SovietEmpireUSSR, GLORY TO STALIN.
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  11. VladimirGLenin Well-Known Member

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    Well I'll be readin those then, seeing as I am quite interested in both of those revolutionaries
  12. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    Strange. In history class (yes, I know Western history class isn't the best source on communism) we learnt that Lenin hated Stalin and wanted Trotsky to get to power after him. They even said that his testimony says that Stalin was an incompetent idiot.
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  13. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    How was Stalin an incompetent idiot, you should read some of his works. The western media has always leaned more towards Trotsky as Lenin's personal favorite when in actuality Lenin supported Stalin's ideas like socialism in one country.
  14. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    It's not my words. That's what they said in history class. But I think, in the end, it didn't even matter who was Lenin's personal favorite, as Stalin had more power than Lenin already, in the end.
  15. Viking Socrates I am Mad Scientist

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    Like to mention Trotsky was absent from Lenin's funeral which Stalin attended, not to mention Stalin seemed to care about Lenin's health way more then Trotsky ever did.
  16. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    I guess that's true. But was that friendship a two way friendship?
  17. VladimirGLenin Well-Known Member

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    Well those 3 revolutionaries had.. let's say, a complicated relationship
  18. pharoahjared Member

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    No he wanted him removed from the position of general of sectary he documented this in his testament. He also criticized Trotsky as well.
    Letter you were talking about.
    written as post script
    @ Viking Socrates
    Stalin lied about Lenin funeral date so that why he didn't show up
  19. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    He did? Wow. That's pretty childish.
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  20. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    And Lenin was just as terrible a human being as was Stalin. Lenin is not some hero, he was coward, a bigot, a thief, a bully, and a demagogue. He was an awful person, and it was his fault that Stalin was allowed to seize power at all, and just as much his fault that Stalin got away with what he did during his nightmarish regime.

    Socialists should be the last people to praise Stalin and Lenin, because no one has done as much damage to their ideological credibility and simultaneously subverted their agenda as much as they have. Yet, because they call themselves socialists, and wrap themselves in socialist rhetoric and symbols, they are treated as the greatest heroes of communism and socialism. Guess it just goes to show how much emphasis socialists put on worthless labels.
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