Understanding the Revolutions in the Middle East

The punishment for apostasy is death.

Obviously the Koran says nothing about suicide bombing... such technology didn't exist at the time the Koran was written. The Koran does say you will be rewarded for fighting and dying for Islam. Islamic terrorists interpret that to mean suicide bombing is acceptable. They believe this so strongly that they willingly kill themselves and many others without hesitation. This is the trouble with religion, it can be interpreted however you like. And in this case it isn't difficult to come to the same conclusion that the Islamic terrorists have come to.

i find this sad why is it that our people cant get along if we cant even stand eachother i cant imagine when some other worldly biengs(aliens) come down hopefully they bring peace but you know if they dont and try to kill us we cant defend ourselves if we already kill eachother and hurt eachother there was this one thing off a movie a low budget one on netflex a good movie where this one alien of a killer race who killed all the humans and said to the last one that youre people could have sttod up to us better if youre people became united sooner alone idiot races fight agienst eachother

ya and i sort of belive were not that special to be the only living life forms out hear in this massive universe,galexy soler system (not sure which one is the biggest i forgot) god must of given life some where far out probly scared that we would try to kill eachother like if we were right next to eachother but eventualy wheather its 1 day or 100000000000 years which i dont think earth will live that long if we keep up our habbits :mrgreen:
(i keep getting off topic i need to stop doing that)

So your argument is that some came to this conclusion hence it is obviously correct? Even though the vast majority of people muslims or not don't come to this conclusion. And the fact that there even exists fatwas against this practice. But hey why not completely ignore all that and just jump to the conclusion that because some idiots came to that conclusion it must be true.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying because it is possible to come to that conclusion (without having to twist words or jump through hoops) then the religion as a whole can be held responsible. If Islam didn't exist, Islamic terrorists wouldn't have justification for doing what they're doing.

So how exactly am I supposed to describe the contents of the Koran if I can't take translated lines out of context? Do we all need to learn Arabic and read the entire Koran together before we can say we have some grasp of its contents?

Thousands of Muslim extremists have willing gone to their death in the name of Islam without any hesitation that they might have completely misunderstood their Koran. Do you honestly think these men misinterpreted their own religion so thoroughly? Is the idea that the Koran might actually have the potential to justify their actions really seem so improbable?

Why is it that the more extreme Muslims are about their religion the more violent they become? If Islam truly is a religion of peace why wouldn’t extremists become more extreme in their devotion to peace and nonviolence? Why instead do we see the exact opposite? How do you explain this?

Why is it that the more extreme Jains are the less violent they become? Jainism is undoubtedly a true religion of peace. Extremist Jains wear mouth coverings to avoid accidentally swallowing and killing a fly. They preach nonviolence and pacifism. They directly inspired Gandhi who in turn inspired MLK. Why when Jain ideology faces political conflict is their reaction the complete polar opposite of Muslims? Are their political situations throughout history so utterly distinct or are these two religions simply different on a fundamental level?

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Edit: Everyone, please find the time to watch this video:
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to pedro3131

jihad means a fight or struggle

a lesser jihad would be (for example) -doing difficult homework, standing up to a local school bully, or trying to persuade someone in an argument, competing in a sporting competition, and many more......

a geater jihad would be - doing important research/inventions to help the world , joining the army in war, defending your house against a burgalur and so on........

Actually the Jihad idea isn't so bad it just gets taken up by extremism. Sorta like Nationalism, it's perfectly fine and can be beneficial in a lot of ways, but extremists begin acting like thier small European nation is the Kingdom of God or something.

I'm glad Mubarack got thrown out of power. I generally hope the Egyptian people get what they want.

@Ahmed: Good job in Egypt, I hope it will bring in a new age of prosperity in the region. However, I'd like to throw this topic into reverse and ask a counter question. While a main point of this topic has been the discussion of Western misconceptions/misunderstandings of Islam, I'd like to ask what you think of Western/Christian, culture, and if there are any points that need to be cleared up.
Edit: Asking you because, as far as I know, you're the only Muslim on the forum

Also don't confuse Hadith's with the Koran, one is written by God (for a believer) the others are commentaries afterwards. Its equivalent to some dude picking up the bible, then writing a text with his interpretation. Yes, some of them are quite important but they also vary in the types of Islam.

If a belief should be restricted based on the fact that it could possibly be and has been misinterpreted by an individual then we most likely would not have any belief at all, Islamic or otherwise. And to extremists being violent, there are two sides of the spectrum of extremes. Just one you do not have to worry about.

God this is probably the most intelligent and unbaised post yet. Every idea can be taken to extremism. Religion has nothing to do with people doing dumb shit. Thats the same as blaming a lot of what the Nazis did in ww2 to catholicism because many soldiers worshipped god. So why dont you go cry somewhere else. Ive really had enough of people blaming everything bad that happens in the world on religion.

Hopefully the new wave of Mulsim youth won't be pulled in by the Muslim Brotherhood or any such organizations. If that happens, Israel will just have to go back to bombing the Gaza Strip, where the people who shoot mortars at border-towns pick up children and carry them across the street so they don't get sniped. Except on a larger scale and from all fronts and with even less international support for remaining a sovreign entity.

Well, I did have a bit of a chit-chat about this with a Muslim substitute teacher a couple months back, he was a pretty cool guy. I think what I can gather from this is that "Fundies are crazy bunch". IMO, the only thing separating the violent fundamentalist Muslims in the middle east and the fundamentalist Christians in the Bible belt is a pint of tenacity. If you don't understand, go and pick up a copy of 'The God Delusion", it lays it out pretty flatly (also, a pretty good read).

Best of luck to Egypt though, last I heard they had a bit of an "Out of the frying pan, into the fire" situation going on there, I'm pretty sure things are still not sunshine and lollipops since I last heard.

to leotrosky

i do not know that much about christainity but i do find many of the basic concepts to be the same as islam for example the ten commandments, we also believe in all the same prophets (even jesus peace be upon him) with prophet muhammed added on (peace be upon him) the only difference is that there are minor variations in their storys for example we believe that jesus (peace be upon him) was not the god and he was not cruicified but instead brought up to heaven.

i believe there is alot of similarities but alot of difference but islam and christanity

So, basically, you (and do you think you have pretty normal beliefs?) recognize the similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam, and are ok with them. That's good. Most people, whatever they believe, cannot get past that the other is different.

Hadith are the sayings of the Prophet Mohammad...

The vast majority of Muslims believe apostates should be put to death.

Here's a passage from the Koran in context. Where am I twisting words? Where are words mistranslated?

“So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory - We will bestow upon him a great reward. And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah , and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of Taghut. So fight against the allies of Satan. Indeed, the plot of Satan has ever been weak. Have you not seen those who were told, "Restrain your hands [from fighting] and establish prayer and give zakah"? But then when fighting was ordained for them, at once a party of them feared men as they fear Allah or with [even] greater fear. They said, "Our Lord, why have You decreed upon us fighting? If only You had postponed [it for] us for a short time." Say, The enjoyment of this world is little, and the Hereafter is better for he who fears Allah . And injustice will not be done to you, [even] as much as a thread [inside a date seed]." Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All [things] are from Allah ." So what is [the matter] with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?”-4:74-78

Here is another translation of that same passage:
“Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah and of the feeble among men and of the women and the children who are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth from out this town of which the people are oppressors! Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend! Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender! Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak. Hast thou not seen those unto whom it was said: Withhold your hands, establish worship and pay the poordue, but when fighting was prescribed for them behold! a party of them fear mankind even as their fear of Allah or with greater fear, and say: Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordained fighting for us? If only Thou wouldst give us respite yet a while! Say (unto them, O Muhammad): The comfort of this world is scant; the Hereafter will be better for him who wardeth off (evil); and ye will not be wronged the down upon a date-stone. Wheresoever ye may be, death will overtake you, even though ye were in lofty towers. Yet if a happy thing befalleth them they say: This is from Allah; and if an evil thing befalleth them they say: This is of thy doing (O Muhammad). Say (unto them): All is from Allah. What is amiss with these people that they come not nigh to understand a happening?”-4:74-78

Here's some more passages from the Koran:
[spoiler:3lvmmaiq]O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. -9:73

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. -9:5

Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition. We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. The Fire shall be their home -3:149-51

Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.' God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God's forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass -3:156

Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God's grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward -3:169

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers -2:190–93

The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing -2:172

As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God's judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire -3:10

Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense -3:28

Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal -3:118

If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy.We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels -3:140).

Those that suffered persecution for My sake and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal resting place -3:195–96

You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . .You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians' -5:80–82

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. -2:193[/spoiler:3lvmmaiq]