Van Jones accuses of libertarians of hating America and the brown folk, the gay, the lesbians

It's just like how all those smelly socialists want the terrorists to win, and are plotting attacks on your family as we speak.

shit, my cover's been blown.

I think he was saying "I believe x? I am y?", not "Because I believe x, that makes me y?"

I guess you could argue that racists attach themselves to libertarianism because, under its doctrines, they would have the most freedom to practice their beliefs. Though, since I have not attended any Libertarian events, I cannot attest to the validity of racism in the party.

I'm gonna use Ron Paul as an example. The fairly isolationist foreign policy promoted by libertarians is liked by people who don't like Latinos.
Edit: What I mean is, racists like isolationism, which the Libertarians promote (at least in the US). This attracts them to the party, which effects party ideology.

Being from Texas, I can attest to this. Pretty much all the Ron Paul supporters here think vary poorly of Mexicans.

Stop using the term 'Liberties'. 'Liberty' is a subjective notion, which varies from person to person, and is not a physical element that you can claim to stand for. What I consider liberty is going to be different to what you consider liberty, and what the person from the street from you considers liberty, and etc. You sound uninformed, and exactly the same as a fundamentalist tossing around bible quotes when you do that. Hell, the bible is actually a physical thing, so it actually makes more sense when they toss bible quotes than when you toss the term 'LIBERTAAAYS'.

Edit:: When you think about it, Libertarianism gives more freedom for racism/sexism/homophobia than even Fascism.

Liberty isn't a subjective notion. It's part of a natural and unavoidable dichotomy that stems from the existence of choice (or for those despicable determinists out there, the illusion of choice). Liberty is the opposite of tyranny, and is equivalent to freedom. More choice is equivalent to more liberty.

Most rational and decent human beings believe that liberty is inherently valuable, and don't have to rely on utilitarian hogwash to justify it.

Liberty is a concrete term. It's not a worthless buzzword like "bourgeois democracy".

You really can't have a different opinion on the subject. Maybe you consider greater liberty to be undesirable, but it doesn't make sense to claim that something which gives individuals more options decreases liberty.

Either people have the choice to do something or someone makes that choice for them. I don't think there has ever even been a serious controversy regarding what liberty is.

Irony.

Yeah no shit. Libertarianism gives you the freedom to do what you want. That's what liberty is.

That doesn't mean libertarians are racists, sexists, or homophobes. It means that they value choice over political correctness and, believe it or not, value liberty over perceived security.

Without economic liberty/equality, there is no liberty, and you have no rights. That is why, in my opinion, socialism is the only ideology which truly embraces liberty. Libertarianism is tyranny it's highest form - It gives the unrestricted ability for bourgeois rats to oppress the the working, and middle class. Please know, Kali, crocve, that I would sooner die than see your tyrannical feudalistic ideology forced onto me.

Also, you're both statists.

Well first, that doesn't make any sense on its own merit, but more importantly it doesn't address the fact that liberty is a concrete term with established ontological meaning.

Your opinion is based on a faulty understanding of liberty, clearly, and instead of addressing that issue you've decided to just post meaningless rhetoric. No doubt you'll just continue this pattern throughout the rest of your post.

Ah, yep. See above.

You live in a world in which my ideology is already being forced on you. Mission failed.

I can make declarative statements too.

Communists worship Satan and believe that auto-erotic asphyxiation is the ideal human state.

This whole thing is just stupid.
I mean, who cares if their librarians are racist, so long as it doesn't affect the book lending, why does it matter?

Yeah well that means that David Carradine was a communist and he was awesome.

Jesus, not you too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carradine

Who is Van Jones and why should I give two shits that he dislikes libertarians? I mean, I gave one shit, that's why I'm posting. But I need an actual reason to care before I dare give two shits.

Socialism is incompatible with liberty, because you all have to use coeercion on those who are against socialism, and that is undemocratic.

Libertarianism is tiranny in his higgest form? HAHAHAHA
Dude, I also smoke pott, but at least I have some moderation. The main value of libertarianism is the defence of liberty. Ando no, I´m not a statist.

Feudalistic ideology? That is very hiperbolic of you (but what marxist in not hiperbolic?). It was capitalism which destroyed the feudalistic economic system. If it wasn´t for capitalism and the classical liberal ideology, we would still live under absolute monarchies and in a true feudalistic system.

But hey, if you think capitalism is a form of feudalism, I also believe that the marxist ideology is the apogeum of feudalism. Why? Because everyone is the subject of a "lord": the state.

I would sooner commit suicide then becoming a slave to totalitarian tyrants.


And now, speaking to everyone: just because libertarians believe in freedom of speech to every kind of thougth, including to racists, that doesn´t mean that ideology is racist. That is a logical fallacy.