What I hate about the way Americans think

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by General Mosh, May 5, 2012.

  1. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    1. There are 3000 according to Washington post, other sources say "complete withdraw"

    2. Done is done bro at least you take responsibility for your actions
  2. GeneralofCarthage Well-Known Member

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    Something to add:

    I didn't know my great uncle who died fighting the Japanese in WW2 and he got the Medal of Honor

    Does that not make him a hero?
  3. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    If he got the Medal of Honor than even I would consider him a hero. That's hard to get, and is given to people who I would consider true heroes. Now don't make the mistake of thinking you can't be a hero unless you win a medal, but usually winning the most important military medal makes you a hero because you win that medal for heroic acts.
    My bad, I was thinking of Afghanistan. Yes, because of Obama's pretty fast pullout, we no longer have any troops in Iraq. Mind you, that's what my father says, he's hardly a reliable source. Also, I would take a look at this article, which was really what I was referring to:
    NPR Article
    Associated Press Article
    I'm glad we do. But I'm appalled that its necessary. We lost 4,487 troops in Iraq. There were over 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed by effects of the war while we were there.
  4. Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Your dad needs to check his facts.
  5. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    Damn that NPR article was good , I will be reading that site some more

    Yea it sucks but you wont be there forever, only until afghan own military can handle it self

    Also majority of those forces will be instructors and the minority of the troops will be SOF. So I think you will avoid major casualties
  6. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    He had been referring to Afghanistan, I remembered it wrong.
    What really pisses me off is that we're training a military so it can kill us.
    Latest "green on blue" attack.
    We've avoided major casualties throughout the war. We lost more than 1,827 men in one battle during WW2.
  7. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    1. That's bad, I will comment more on that tomorrow

    2. I meant by:" So I think you will avoid major casualties"

    that you will avoid "major casualties" that are in this war "major"
  8. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Fair enough. Major casualties in this war would be like 5 troops lost in a firefight.
  9. StephenColbert27 Active Member

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    I never said that you were a worse person for believing these people aren't heroes. Though in my opinion, they are. However, there's not much I can add to what is being said or has been said already.
  10. UtterlyImpeccable Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me for arriving late to this discussion, as I do not know if my comments will be relevant any longer, but I will give my opinion in response to the OP.

    I would agree with some of what you are saying, that 'hero' has become an overused word. However, the very issue of 'heroism' is a very confused one.

    A 'hero' is someone who has done a heroic act, such as the example you used of jumping on a grenade, so by that defenition, for someone to be a 'hero' they must be in a situation where a heroic action is required. Most people, and indeed many firefighters/soldiers etc., will go through life without being in such a situation.

    Therefore, to be a 'hero' you must have both the potential for heroic action, and a fitting situation in which the heroic action is required. This means that a 'hero', the soldier who jumped on the grenade, is not necessarily a better man that one standing 10 yards away, for that other man may have the same potential for heroism than the man jumping on the grenade, but the one man is simply in a situation where such heroism is required, and so he is deemed by society a 'hero'.

    A rather disjointed and confused argument, but I hope you understand what I mean.
  11. BattalionOfRed Mr. Fred Battaliono

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    What the fuck did you do, Mosh. I'm not even going to read all eight pages of this.

    Also, I'm questioning this thread being in the Political/Current events coffeehouse.
  12. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Sorry, I can't seem to help being at the center of shitstorms these days.
    Its a political (ish) thread, people are currently being called heroes, and much of it was a discussion about the war on terror.
    I know you didn't. Others did.
    I understand what you mean, but I don't think you should call someone a hero for having heroic potential. Actions speak louder than words.
  13. BattalionOfRed Mr. Fred Battaliono

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    All right fine, I'll read the fucking OP, but nothing more.

    Whoa, whoa, hold on there buddy. You see, that was a bad start, now I'm not going to be so positive, my grandfather was a fireman, and in the military.

    I think you're talking about how these people can prove to themselves and others that they are heroes, that they are willing to throw their own ass into the fire for something or someone they have no connection to, but this opportunity doesn't come whenever the hell they feel like it, it can come at any time, and this needs to be considered. What if you were a hostage by some fucking lunatic, and a policeman who you say isn't very heroic calms them down, and saves everybody. Would you change your mind about that man? My grandfather saved lives on many occasions, he has received multiple awards for nearly killing himself to save people, and that sounds pretty fucking heroic to me.

    You need new friends.
    Kali likes this.
  14. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    We pretty much agreed over the course of the discussion that most firefighters can be considered heroes :p

    And much of your post had to do with heroic potential, which even though many people may have that potential, they are still not heroes for it. They are heroes for actually acting on it and if they don't get the chance to prove they are heroes than why should people be mad I don't consider them heroes?
  15. BattalionOfRed Mr. Fred Battaliono

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    That's what I'm getting at, if someone is willing to go and save others and does so when the opportunity comes, and doesn't do a half-ass job or run away, they are a top of the line hero. But, if you don't know them, why would you judge them on this? If you did know them, and you are fully confident that they would save others at the expense of themselves, wouldn't you consider them heroes? You need to also be able to know them, and not just judge them based on what you hear they did, that's not right. If you don't, that's fine, but don't bring it up.

    It is insulting to their family to not consider them heroic whether they got a chance to prove it or not, however, that's only because you are speaking about them, so when you do speak of them, they don't expect you to be... well, so judgemental about the nobility and heroism of their family members. This is a very touchy topic, one that can't be discussed peacefully only because you're speaking of people's history, that is why they are angry.
  16. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Because heroic potential doesn't always, or even frequently, translate to heroic action. Why would I call someone a hero if they never even got the chance to prove that for themselves? At least I can understand calling service members heroes, even if I do disagree, but saying you're a hero just for heroic potential really is not true.
    By that logic, than the majority of the human population are heroes, and as I have tried to state on this very thread, hero is a word that should be used for the best of the best, not just to satisfy some family who wants justification for their child, brother, father, or close friends death.
    I can understand them being upset, and I'm not complaning about them being upset. I however, am complaining about the lack of knowledge and logic from these people, one of which went on to try and convince me that Obama was "withholding information about the war in the Middle East" and that his administration "controls the media", of course at this point I ceased taking that argument seriously.

    I'd also like to ask if you guys think the 50,000 Afghanistan/Iraq veterans who commited suicide are heroes? I mean, they served, right? Does that make them heroes?
  17. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    Maybe not, but it does mean we should treat them that way. And again, you know that. However, you've chosen to actively subvert that behavior because you want attention.
    Committed.
  18. BattalionOfRed Mr. Fred Battaliono

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    You're not calling them a hero, you're saying that you are in the belief that they can be heroes. Encouraging people with that helps them in confidence, which, can help them prove that they are heroes.

    At what point does this become a challenge instead of being a hero to others.

    To some, they may be heroes, but to others, like yourself, people refuse the idea that they are heroes.
  19. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    It doesn't mean we should treat them that way, and I'm certainly not looking for attention when I don't kiss the ground in front of the military's feet.
    My computers in repairs, and I have no spellcheck on the school computers, from which I'm typing this and from which I typed that. I'm not gonna waste my precious 30 minutes going over a post and correcting the tiny little spelling errors.
    I believe anyone can be a hero if given the chance. So I'm not going to just call them heroes.
    I have no idea. I decide who's a hero (to me) when I see what they've done, and I don't really spend that much time thinking about what someone could do to be a hero, I think about what someone has done to be a hero.

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