What nation you admire the most?

And who said we wouldn't be able to continue trade? We trade extensively with China, so...

My dad went to Osan AFB, I understand we have bases there. My dad says it was the pissiest excuse for an AFB he had ever see, and that one is supposed to be our biggest. Japan yes, I'll grant you that our bases THERE would be a problem.

Military isn't everything. Economically, China is a superpower. And it has a hell of a lot of influence over the entirety of Asia. Yes its a superpower, even if its strong point RIGHT NOW isn't military.

They could already challenge us. Win, no. Challenge us, HELL YES!
China's land force is pretty goddamned strong, and on par with our army. However, they don't yet have the Air Force and Navy to back it up. But their air force/navy is by no means still in the Soviet Era or midget. It is just not yet on par with our country.

@ General Mosh
Thank you for saving me some time.

Just a few points of order though:
1. Neither the U.S. nor China, nor any nation in the world can 'lash out' against any nations simply because it is economically prosperous. Its an abserd idea to think that they would.
2. Economically, China still lags behind the U.S. in GDP. HOWEVER, there is a very good reason why people from politicians to military officers to the common people tend to regard it as a superpower.
3. Erm... I would say that China's land forces are ON PAR with the U.S.'s, but I would say that in a land engagement in China the U.S. would have little hope for victory.

China just has such an absurd amount of manpower, the only way for the US to win is through a strategy of total war, meaning our policy of "shock and awe" in cities like Shanghai and Beijing.

Because China isn't fair and would use that control to put us in an extremely unfavorable condition.

So you understand the stupidity of China in the event they made a move on our interests.

It's an economical superpower, yes. But then again so is Japan.

They may be strong but a bunch of silly parades doesnt make them on par with us. A good deal of their tech is Cold War era tech and most of the stuff that isnt still stops short. They wont have the Navy/Air Force to back up anything for a long time and their numbers mean nothing when you count our allies in.

You ever think that if China had modern and futuristic weapons, we wouldn't know about it? Thats not the kind of thing countries tend to put out for the public to see. China also has less laws about censorship, so it is easier for them to hide things from us. By the way, the Us tends not to have good intelligence assets in the Asian countries because of extreme cultural differences, so how the hell would we know the best of what China has?

This statement is sheer idiocy. Of course we would know if they had modern weapons (their shit is so far behind it would take a jump of two decades to be futuristic.). This shit can be found out pretty easily by just about anyone.

Fixed...
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!
Every single country has secret projects, and SECRET means other countries don't know about it. I'm sure not any random country can find out what our secret projects are, so we won't know about other country's secret projects.

China could never beat us militarily.

On China's military:
Both of you have valid points.
China's military is not on par with the U.S., however, to think that it is incapible of adequately protecting its borders is beyond foolish. China doesn't pour money into its military like the U.S. does, but that is not to say that they lack advancement. Mosh's thoughts on secret projects is a bit further than I would claim, but certainly weapons like the T-95 System have their own versions in the Chinese army that is not sold on the open arms market to other nations. The U.S. is the same way: their military-grade weapons include features not on the version sold around the world to other militaries. In terms of Navy, yes, China laggs behind the U.S. severly. However, the Chinese Air Force cannot be stated because there is simply not enough information on it to make any kind of solid determination that any competant general would not make contingency plans for.

A big boon in China's favor at the moment and its bane is that it maintains an air of secrecy to its weapons. The new anti-carrier missle is a prime example of this. On one hand, the U.S. assumes that it is perfectly capible of sinking U.S. navy craft within its range [which is pretty far, as the missle qualifies as what amounts to a mini-ICBM]. On the other hand, nobody, not even the Chinese themselves, know how affective the missles actually are. This is because they have never been seen in a large-scale test. Therefore, the data simply does not exist. Many Chinese military assets are like this, nobody but the Chinese know how affective they really are because only the Chinese have ever seen them in action.

@ slydessertfox
Not beyond their borders, parhaps. But if the U.S. desided to wage a war with China, no matter the provokation, the U.S. could never win attacking China.

Yes that was what I was getting at. We could never occupy China but China could never defeat us on foreign soil.

Define Foreign soil...

Umm... the name speaks for itself. If it isn't in China, its on foreign soil.

Though whether China could beat the U.S. on foreign soil, or if the U.S. or any country can win on foreign soil is [due to the lack of total war] almost totally up to the discression of the local population. Look at Vietnam. Look at the Middle East. Compare the two. In Vietnam, it was doomed to fail because the people would not have supported a pro-American country even if the U.S. won. In the Middle East [Iraq and Afghanistan], the U.S. has a chance to win because the opposing side is not supported by the locals and the locals are interested in looking into Western government, society, culture, etc. These days, the true victory comes after the last shot is fired, not before. Its about who survives to claim the victory and what the people say.

What I meant by define foreign soil was cause I think China has a competent enough army to also fight in Korea while defending its country.

Undoubtedly, but win in Korea? Not likely. It would probably just ground back down to the same stalemate that it is now.

The Chinese military is used more as a domestic police force then a military, tough there ground troops are very good they just lack a powerful Navy or Air force.

That doesn't make sense.

Then you ignore the facts.

You have no idea how geopolitics work, or what the US-Korea alliance and US-Japan alliance mean to us. Your statements are completely unfounded and have no shred of factual basis. They are, like Imperial's, inventions of your own; fantasies.

Again, completely laughable and baseless statements.

Mozambique could challenge us. Does that mean Mozambique is a superpower?

China completely lacks the capacity to deploy its military globally and would have major trouble deploying it even to another East Asian nation.

Yes, it is.

If China actually had secret advanced technology, then the fact that they can actually keep it a secret means that it is not nearly practical enough to actually be useful in a military conflict. No doubt they have prototypes that we don't know about, but in no way does that make them equally competent, as the overwhelming majority of their military is toting around Soviet-era surplus weaponry.

Irony.

Nationalism has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me. It has to do with the fact that your overwhelming emotional attachment to a nation makes you ignore factual statements in favor of convoluted fantasies and attempts to rationalize wrongdoings committed by that nation.

ASMs are not new and there is a reason that aircraft carriers travel in large flotilla groups that have several Aegis-equipped destroyers and cruisers.

Kali, have I ever told you how much I love you?

Only every day.

Kali you must teach me how to be as awesome as you.

I have no bias towards either, I'd rather see both countries fall under the control of the UK, but that's not going to happen. Not even in my dreams...

So your saying with the war on terror we already have and our economic crisis, the US is perfectly willing to go to war over some small country like South Korea? I'll even edit my statement, the US wouldn't do anything if South Korea came under China's influence but would probably take action in Japan's case.

So you deny that China has any kind of good economy? You call the fact that China isn't right now a military superpower a baseless statement? Then I suppose you might as well say a good statement would be, China is a military superpower but not an economic one. I'm confused. You should be more clear.

By challenge I of course mean fight a relatively lengthy war that they may not win, but will cost us HUGE casualties.

Which we have already kind of agreed with you on... In fact I said that China would get beat easily everywhere except for its own territory, and possibly Korea.

I'm sorry, I didn't know 5500 aircraft was midget. OF COURSE YOUR GOING TO EXPECT IT TO BE SMALL NEXT TO THE US AIR FORCE!!! The US Air Force has long been the best in the world. Once again, I have already conceded China's Air Force/Navy are not all that good. Plus, North Korea would fight on their side, adding another 1500 aircraft (even if they are only suitable for home defence).

Or it means their not willing to test it thoroughly to make sure they don't alert the US, maybe?