What nation you admire the most?

So who thinks Kim is dead, and who thinks he is only dying?

Probably just dying. Like us all.
If he was dead, there would be a succession ceremony. Which would draw enough media attension for us to notice because SOMEONE from China would attend.

I think if he died, there wouldn't be a succession ceremony for years because they want us to believe he is still alive...

North Korea will fall with Kim's death. Since everyone will be gunning to be next in line they will just turn on each other and it will be political suicide, it might not happen in one day after his death but it will happen.

I think if he died, there wouldn't be a succession ceremony for years because they want us to believe he is still alive...[/quote:3b76ke3x]
To what end? The majority of the globe believes that his son will just continue the regime.
Actually, when he dies is a golden oppertunity for them. Change the people in power, burn the records, and submit to South Korea. The lost records will ensure that nobody below the dictator is blamed and the son cannot be blamed for anything since there is no proof that he ever did anything wrong. Sure, there'll be a lengthy review by the U.N. Justice thing, but the majority if not all the North Korean regime would get off scot-free.

No there won't. The Chinese are watching. If the regime becomes unstable, China will move in to 'stabilize' the regime and then turn it over to the South Koreans for political points. Like I said before, a united Korea is only to China's favor.

A united Korea is to China favor, you mean one where the west is even closer to there borders or where one where a western country becomes more stronger (mind you a united Korea would be a huge economic country passing Japan or becoming close) No China will do all it can to prevent the west moving in on a weaking North Korea even if it risk having to "annex" North Korea.

Also Kim has the power stretch too thin he has different people charge of different sectors and his younger son is next in line to be heir, which won't sit well with people wanting to see the elder or someone else become leader and the younger song and the military don't get along.

You misinterprate South Korea. A regional economic power like Korea would be a boon to China in trade. And South Korea does not like the U.S. Oh, its government works well with the U.S., but there is a long-simmering resentment from the people. They just see their government in bed with the U.S. government and pretending to be a democracy when in fact a number of human rights are 'suspended' in South Korea due to the 'war', which the South Koreans just don't see. A united Korea will quickly kick the U.S. to the curb and just as quickly realize that it was the U.S. that had prevented the unification by backing a government in South Korea that the people disliked [which would be kicked out once real democratic elections take place, not the 'war elections'.].

No there won't. The Chinese are the sole backers of North Korea. If they say that Kim's next in line is next in line, it will be so. And the next in line appears to be inclined to reunite the Koreas. Even if there is a struggle, China will win in the end. They and whoever they back, who would inevitably reunite the Koreas. Which would be in China's favor.

A united Korea will be more pro west then what China wants. Soon North Korea will belong to China again.

But hey i could allways be wrong, when kim jon il dies if not in seven years after his death North Korea exist at all i will personally find you at pay you 2,000 dollars.

Considering how quickly S. Korea has become as real economic superpower, and combined with the lands and population of N. Korea, they would inherit the Earth!

Im also interested in what South korea will do once they split from the united states in military (in 2012)

I think you are confusing 'West' and 'modern'.
A united Korea will realize how much of their human rights guarenteed to them by the U.S.-backed South Korean government were denied and call for a change in government. If the government resists, then Korea will be pro-China. If the government does not resist, then Korea will be neutral. The years of scars caused by U.S. occupation and series of war policies that the Koreans despised will cause them to be somewhat anti-U.S., if not really hating them.

While on small, individual scales, the U.S. people [soldiers mainly] are on reletively good terms with the South Koreans, the U.S. government does not get so much love. There have been many cases in which the two governments have covered for actions by soldiers which otherwise would have ended with dishonorable discharges and execution. The South Koreans will not be so slow to forget and the U.S.'s relations with a truely democratic Korea, reflecting the will of the people, will not be so cheery as they are now.

@ FriendlyPie
There is a reason why China gets nothing in return for their aid sent to North Korea other than infulence, you know. *hint hint* Its because there is nothing there. Granted, there hasn't been much in the way of geological surveys in North Korea [at least no widely-publicized ones], but there appears to be... nothing there. Nothing of value anyways.

South Korea is incredibly free. Sure it's not as free as it could be, but it's a democracy. If the Koreans really want a "freer" government they can elect one. They don't need to topple one.

lol

South Korea despises China, and the Northerns aren't fanatical about China. It'll be leaning against China, although it might be sympothetic sometimes.

It will always be pro-American. Probably like Japan.

The fuck are you talking about? Sure they might dislike our Middle Eastern policy, but they wont hate the US for it. They might be like Spain and elect a new government to becoem more isolationist, but they wont break all ties with America. And there hasn't been a US Occupation since the Korean War. We've had troops there, yes, but we havn't been like, purging the country side of insurgents or anything.

Your forgetting how many Koreans actually live in the US and even then tons love Korea, or are perfectly fine with it. I havn't met one person who was anti-South Korea except a few North Korean supporters. They aren't large enough to make a difference.

I think South Korea is relativly loving of America. Maybe we're not Broskies, but we're fine together.

Not really. Maybe during the Korean War, or once or twice because they did something stupid to save them, but not like they lit an orphanage on fire.

South Korea is democratic already. And South Koreans are fine with the US. The US is fine with South Korea.
What's the problem here?

Your just making up some kind of hatred between these countries. It would be like taking those anti-British jokes Americans make, and anti-American jokes the British make, and saying that most Americans and most Brits hate eachother.

I think that you misinterprete my post.

I'm saying that South Korea is nowhere near as democratic as it looks and that the government is alot like the one that the U.S.* put up in Vietnam [possibly minus the fraudulent voting, possibly] and that the South Koreans like it just about as much as the North Koreans like theirs.

I'm saying that a united Korea will be more leaning towards China since the people will see more flaws in the U.S. than they will be aware of in China. That, and China and South Korea do alot of buisness.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2800.htm

Remember the Japanese elections? Probably not. Newsflash: it is damn near a tradition in Japanese politics now to promise to the Japanese people that you will remove the U.S. base in Japan if they elect you Prime Minister. The point? Japanese people don't really like the U.S.* And South Koreans don't really like the U.S.* either.

I never said that the Koreans would 'break ties', I said that they would drift away dramatically. Especially since there would be no more use for the U.S. to be in the country. Korea has nothing to fear from China.
*U.S. = U.S. government and military, not necessarily the people of the U.S.

A united korea will allways be more pro west then pro east, they will look to United states way before looking to China, really it will just be Japan part 2.

A UNITED JAPAN AND KOREA!!!

They are part of the East.
They live next to China and have for the last 4000+ years.
They have existed under China's sphere of influence for millenia.
They do more trade with China in both culture and goods than the U.S.
Their culture, especially their writing system, is mirrored off of China's.
They have every reason to favor China.

Ask a Korean, North or South, do they speak a Chinese dialect as a second language or English? The answer is easily enough determined by a glance at the map.

And remember that Japan is modernized, not Westernized.
They don't like the U.S. in their country either.

Japan and Korea when given the choice between America and China will allways go to America.

Really? Really?
I provide solid reasons why they have in the past, at present, and in the future would prefer China and your only responce is to say 'Duh, they will chose America anyway. Duh... America *$^$ yeah!'?

Either you are just blind to these facts or you need a serious course in debating.

Can you seriously expect to win support with that argument?
Kali would probably debate this one out with me, but at least he provides reasons, facts, and a comprehensive argument that makes sense.

Please refrain from posting more nonsensical sphil until you can back it up. You are clogging up valuble posting space.

Go and ask around here if the Dutch would rather be ruled by the Belgians, Germans or Americans. Ask the Bosnians if they'd rather be ruled by the Serbians or, say, the British. Just because two nations border each other doesn't instantly mean they like eachother.

First of all Im not Kali so if your expecting the same argument from me then your sadly mistaken. For i have no reason to but no instead of going off that im horrible at arguments how about you actually state your facts about how Korea and Japan will go to China then America, which i rather doubt that. Tough im not that educated on the subject of the east So please enlighten me with your clam oh great asshole Imperial.